In the world of healthcare, few people know the complexities of chronic disease management better than Stephanie Spencer. After spending 27 years as a cardiac RN specializing in heart failure management, she witnessed firsthand the devastating impact of the Standard American Diet on patients' quality of life. But it wasn’t until her husband Paul was diagnosed with diabetes that her journey toward plant-based wellness truly began. Today, Stephanie is the founder of Natural State of Health, a plant-based wellness service in Little Rock, Arkansas, aimed at reversing, not just managing, chronic diseases.
From Chronic Disease to Reversing Disease
Stephanie’s extensive career in healthcare led her to realize one key truth: the medical system often focuses on managing symptoms rather than addressing root causes.
"I would have patients who were gravely ill, often diabetic and severely overweight. We would treat them with medication, but we never addressed what was causing their illnesses," Stephanie says.
This realization became deeply personal when Paul developed pre-diabetes in 2019.
Instead of opting for medications and insulin, Stephanie turned to a whole-food, plant-based diet. Within just four months, Paul’s diabetes was reversed, and they both lost over 20 pounds.
"I was astounded at how quickly diet alone could reverse a chronic condition like diabetes," she shares.
This personal success story propelled Stephanie to dive deeper into plant-based nutrition, ultimately becoming certified in Plant-Based Nutrition through the T. Colin Campbell Center for Nutrition Studies at eCornell and obtaining a board certification in Lifestyle Medicine.
Building Natural State of Health
Fueled by a desire to bring real change to others, Stephanie founded Natural State of Health, where she offers a variety of services, including personalized coaching, online courses, and community support. Her goal? To educate and empower people to not just manage but reverse chronic conditions like Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and hypertension.
Stephanie’s signature program, the 21-Day Plant-Based Challenge, provides a comprehensive, step-by-step guide to transitioning to a whole-food, plant-based lifestyle. This program is more than just a diet; it’s a lifestyle change that includes mindful eating, exercise, and stress reduction techniques.
As part of her holistic approach, Stephanie also owns Natural State Microgreens, a business supplying nutrient-dense superfoods to local restaurants and farmers markets. Microgreens, tiny plant seedlings packed with vitamins and minerals, have up to 40 times the nutrient density of fully-grown vegetables, making them an essential component of a plant-based diet.
Insights You'll Gain from Stephanie's Story
Reversing vs. Managing Disease: Stephanie’s journey illustrates how a whole-food, plant-based diet can prevent and even reverse chronic diseases, especially when medical treatments fail to address the root cause.
Nutrient-Dense Superfoods: Learn how microgreens, a product Stephanie grows and sells, can dramatically boost nutrient intake and improve health.
Lifestyle Medicine: Discover the six pillars of Lifestyle Medicine: nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress management, social connections, and avoiding risky substances.
Empowerment Through Education: Stephanie emphasizes that anyone can make this change. "You don’t need an insurance card for good health. You need the right information."
Entrepreneurship in Wellness: Stephanie’s business models—Natural State of Health and Natural State Microgreens—show how entrepreneurs can blend health advocacy with business to create lasting impact.
Stephanie Spencer’s story is a powerful testament to the impact of food on health. By focusing on plant-based nutrition and lifestyle medicine, she’s helping her clients achieve the vitality they deserve, one meal at a time.
As she often says, “Stop managing your chronic disease and start reversing it!”
Ready to take control of your health? Learn more about Stephanie Spencer's programs and services at Natural State of Health and start your journey toward a plant-powered life today.
🔗 Useful Links:
Online Courses: https://www.naturalstateplantbased.com/forum-posts-1
Book a Coaching Session: https://www.naturalstateplantbased.com/book-online
Instagram-Plant Based Info: https://www.instagram.com/natural_state_plant_based/
Facebook-Plant Based info: https://www.facebook.com/naturalstateplantbased
Facebook-Microgreens: https://www.facebook.com/locallygrownsuperfood501
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@naturalstateplantbased6454
Subscribe to the Plant-Based On Fire podcast on YouTube or your favorite streaming platform today and stay connected with our ongoing exploration of the complex plant-based business world.
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Episode’s Transcript
Please understand that a transcription service provided the transcript below. It undoubtedly contains errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions.
Bryan (00:00)
Hello everybody and welcome to Plant Based On Fire, where we talk about plant based businesses and their inspiring stories to thrive in our industry. I am your host Bryan and joining us today is Stephanie Spencer, a former cardiac, she's a cardiac RN of 27 years with a long career working in chronic disease management. And she is the founder of Natural State of Health, a plant based wellness service.
Stephanie Spencer (00:13)
Hey there!
Bryan (00:27)
Stephanie owns I think natural state microgreens and sells this awesome superfood to local restaurants in and around Little Rock, right?
Stephanie Spencer (00:30)
All right.
That's right, and farmers markets and direct to consumer, all sorts of fun. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, I'm excited to be on. Yeah.
Bryan (00:41)
Love it. Well, welcome to the show, Stephanie. Thanks for being here.
So for people that might not know you yet and stuff, and just for me a little bit, tell us a little bit about your transformation. What was the turning point that led you to head down the whole food plant -based diet personally, professionally, and give us a little history.
Stephanie Spencer (01:03)
Absolutely. Well, so I, like you said, I've been a cardiac around for 27 years ever since I graduated from college in my early 20s. Like I have worked in hospitals and, and you know, like when you're young and you're just starting out and you're like, I want to help people and you don't really realize anything like the medical system has changed a lot over the last 30 years. And yeah, anyway, but I got into cardiology. really love cardiology.
I ended up running a heart failure clinic for 17 years doing an outpatient clinic to keep heart failure patients out of the hospital. The heart failure ER admissions are the number one expense to the Medicare system. So there's quite an incentive to try to, for the Medicare population to try to keep these patients controlled. And so this is one of our most common chronic diseases. Like healthy people don't think about heart failure too much, but
a lot of people end up getting heart failure in the end. so like heart failure management and diabetes management are the common like chronic disease management fields in the medical system. So that's what I did was heart failure management. And most of heart failure is either caused by heart attacks or by high blood pressure. And most heart attacks are caused by diabetes because diabetes type two diabetes just destroys your arteries.
And so like it's all one big mess. And I used to, know, like, would have patients that would come to me and they would be like maybe wheelchair bound. you know, and I'm in Arkansas. We're not known for being like super slim and healthy down here. And, you know, I'd have plenty, most of my patients weighed around 300 pounds and they'll sometimes come to me wheelchair bound.
Bryan (02:33)
Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (02:54)
like gravely ill, they've blown out both their knees and, you know, and hypertensive or most all of them were diabetic. I like, I probably had like 250 patients in my clinic that I would manage and I could count on one hand, the people that were not diabetic. Like if someone wasn't diabetic, it would stick in my head because it was so rare. And so like, and over time I just came to,
Bryan (02:59)
Wow.
Stephanie Spencer (03:23)
realizing like we just expect this certain level of debilitation in our patient population. That's just normal. And I know like even though like in the medical field, like, you know, in medical school and nursing school, like I actually did have one nutrition class in college, but most doctors have never had a nutrition class, you know, but we don't learn anything about how to treat the underlying cause of chronic disease. And so, yeah, like I came to understand over the years, like,
everything we're doing, we're just doing the tip of the iceberg. Like I'm just giving people IV Lasix to diuretics to pull the fluid out of their lungs so they don't end up in the ER, but I'm not doing anything to address the underlying problem. And after a while, it just got to be kind of depressing. And yeah, so in 2019, I just got to where I was ready for a change. I wasn't plant -based. I didn't know about plant -based nutrition at the time, but I...
It's a long story, but I had just gotten to the end of the hyper -industrialized medical system. And a couple acts of Congress wiped out reimbursement for the thing that I did. And I was like, you know what? I think I've got my money's worth out of my college degree and I'm gonna just try something different. And so I did, I started a microgreens business. have like, we live kind of out in the country and we have 15 acres. And I was like, I think I can pull this off. And so I did, I started selling and microgreens are just.
vegetable seedlings and they're really nutrient dense and it's kind of funny like honestly I just I was kind of always fascinated by like organic farming and regenerative agriculture and I've listened to all these podcasts and stuff and and so and then I kind of heard about microgreens that they were like you know like profitable and really easy to do or fairly easy you know compared to starting a farm and and I was like yeah I think I'll try that and
And then I heard a podcast and some guy was talking about how they're really healthy. I'm like, they're healthy. I had no idea. But it turns out like, yeah, they've done studies on microgreens. And since they're just vegetable seedlings and all the nutrition comes from the seed that, you know, like if you harvest them like 10 days out of the seed, well, they've been shown to have anywhere from four all the way up to 260 times more nutrient density.
than the raw vegetable they grow into. So it's really insane. And that's what a lot of our problems are caused, our health problems are from lack of fiber and lack of nutrient density, right? Like we just eat refined depleted foods. so anyway, yeah, so I got into started doing microgreens, sell them into restaurants and farmers markets. And right about the same time that I started this, I mean, it was like maybe a few months later.
Bryan (05:48)
Wow.
Wow.
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (06:15)
My husband comes home from the doctor one day with blood work showing that he was pre -diabetic. And I was aghast. I was absolutely aghast. And I had just seen, I just happened to be watching, one day I was folding my laundry and I'm like, you know, watching a documentary on Netflix while I was doing it. And I saw What the Health with Dr. Neal Bernard where he explains everything about diabetes. And I was like, what?
Bryan (06:23)
Wow.
Stephanie Spencer (06:45)
I was like, you know, I've been an RN for seven years. had never heard that type two diabetes is reversible. Like our only goal in the medical field is to keep your hemoglobin A1C is a measure of diabetes. yeah, pre -diabetes 5 .7 to 6 .4 or 6 .4 and above is diabetic. know, like a lot of people are walking around with like A1C of 8 .5 or what.
Bryan (06:47)
Yeah.
Manage it, right, yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (07:13)
All we try to do in the medical field is keep your A1c below seven because below seven is believed to like, you'll have less chance of a heart attack. And so no one's ever thought to like, try to make diabetes go away. like, anyway, but that was just, that just blew my mind that you could just change your dietary pattern and flat out become undiabetic. And so anyway, when Paul was sitting in front of me with his pre -diabetes labs, I was like, buddy,
we're going on a plant -based diet. There's not going to be any diabetics in this house because like the other thing I used to do was like a lot of my patients were end -stage diabetes as well and they end up having to have like all this bariatric treatment. They get wounds, their wounds get infected, they get septic, they need six weeks of IV vancomycin, then they wipe out like going to kidney failure. I mean, it's and I was like, yeah, it's just a cascade and you in like
Bryan (08:03)
Yeah.
It's just one thing to the next, right?
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (08:11)
Another thing I used to do was I did home infusion. used to run a program for this hardcore hurt failure drug with a home infusion pharmacy. And like I would have to these people up on vancomycin, diabetics all the time or getting infected wounds or just the whole bloodstream infected. And vancomycin is kind like our most hardcore IV antibiotic.
And then the vancomycin would wipe out their kidney function. I mean, like they would go into kidney failure and then they can't take any more of the vancomycin, but they still have it in their fridge and they still owe me $2 ,000 for it. I mean, like just the whole idiocy of this entire system just made me crazy. And so anyway, the thought of Paul ending up in that spiral, I was like, no. And so we switched to a plant -based diet kind of immediately.
And luckily Paul didn't fight me on it. And we both lost 20 pounds. We just checked, yeah, we checked his blood work like four months later. So that's when like it might've happened earlier, but four months later, his A1C was right back down the normal range. like, you know, every middle -aged man has a little bit of like what we call BPH, benign prostatic hypertrophy. Like, so he had this like issues with having to pee all through the night.
That went away. My parents switched to a plant -based diet at the same time. My dad went off of his prostate medicine. Like everything starts to get better. Low back pain goes away. Just like little piddly things. You know, like we slept better. We only required like six hours of sleep. It's just crazy. So, yeah, I was just, I was just flattered.
Bryan (09:59)
love it. mean, what an amazing story. and it, it, like I, I'm on the CTO side of things. do the fractional CTO work and stuff. And I've worked with diabetes companies and all these things. And I see them setting up their programs to help you manage all these things. I'm building the programs that you have to click the buttons to track all this stuff. And it is just so eye -opening that they aren't taking these things into consideration the right way. And I guess.
Stephanie Spencer (10:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bryan (10:26)
Like the fascinating thing for me, I want to get back to the business that you're building a little bit, but like the one thing that that you unpacked from was I was just seeing some study about the fact that like my young children may not live as long as me. Like we're heading down that path. This is the first time an American where the life expectancy is not getting greater. It's starting to shrink and it is because of all these chronic diseases that we are managing and it's
Stephanie Spencer (10:30)
Mm -hmm.
is
Bryan (10:55)
It to me, I also go back to like the reason I eat plants only is because like when it's my time to go, I want to just go. You know what mean? I don't want to sit around for 10 years in a hospital with no, you know, life plan kind of like not being out. You know, so I want to have the ability to lead the life I can lead right now up until like hopefully the last couple of moments on that front. So just so, so, so inspiring.
Stephanie Spencer (11:18)
Right, right, there's a -
Yeah, there's a paradigm. I've heard someone talk about this, but the idea of like life is like a rectangle. And if like basically, if a healthy person, like if you're if you're ill, your rectangle, you're gonna, you're gonna live so long. And then you're just going to have maybe you see this, you're just gonna have this big drop off. But that drop off is going to be a long period of time. So they say the average
Bryan (11:47)
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (11:50)
healthy life expectancy is 69 years. And then most people will spend 17 years being in poor health, meaning like you're starting to go to the doctor all the time. And then the last nine years of life are usually the patient is debilitated. And usually I came in like about the last three years of your nine debilitated years. And so I'm really familiar with that. But with a plant -based diet, what we... Yeah.
Bryan (12:14)
And I've seen it with my mom taking care of my grandparents for the last 10 years of their life as they just declined, declined, declined. So like we have got to shift that. So.
Stephanie Spencer (12:18)
Mm -hmm. Right. Right. Yeah, and with a plant -based diet, what we want to do is have, like this is quality of life up here. We want to have a high quality of life. We're all still going to die, but then you just have a drop -off at the very end. Instead of this decline that starts to happen in the 60s, you could make it till your 90s and then just have a drop -off there. So, or even 100. So, yeah, that's the whole idea.
Bryan (12:36)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (12:49)
But anyway, yeah, it's really amazing. I have never seen people turn around from drugs and procedures the way I see them turn around by simply eliminating toxic foods like high fat, inflammatory animal protein and just adding fiber and nutrient density. It's just amazing. And it's so simple and it's accessible to everyone. You don't have to have...
Bryan (12:50)
Well, we have.
Right.
I ag
Stephanie Spencer (13:15)
you know, the right insurance card in your pocket, anyone can do this.
Bryan (13:20)
That's right. That's right. And, I have a whole nother episode on how it's the same price or cheaper to do this. There is no vegan myth that it's more expensive and all that kind of stuff. Like there's just, but let's, let's unpack the business side of this a little bit more. What have you seen be the biggest challenges in transitioning from healthcare to entrepreneurship and building your platform and that kind of stuff. Talk to us about some of that. Cause it is a reinvention a little bit.
Stephanie Spencer (13:28)
Thank you.
Yeah.
There are a lot of challenges. I would love to say that it's all wonderful and yeah, but there's, you know, once you decide to leave the traditional medical field and try to address the root cause of health problems, there's not a lot of infrastructure out there for that.
Bryan (14:06)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (14:09)
So I am board certified in lifestyle medicine. so the American College of Lifestyle Medicine is really groundbreaking. This is the fastest growing medical specialty in the United States. I think there's like 70 residency programs now for med students. But this is how we have a paradigm shift. Like our healthcare system is so...
Bryan (14:28)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (14:37)
so far gone, I mean, like just, it's almost useless at this point. And it's kind of like the political system. It's like, it seems unlikely that it's going to reform itself, right? And so you just have to build up something next to it that's done the right way. And that's what the American College of Lifestyle Medicine has to offer is a completely different way of looking at things. And
Bryan (14:51)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (15:05)
and addressing the six pillars of lifestyle medicine, is, I know if I can get them all, it's nutrition, a whole food plant -based diet, exercise, sleep, avoidance of risky substances, social connections, avoiding stress, things like that. But that's the root cause of most of our debilitation in life. But yeah, so we have to...
Bryan (15:09)
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (15:29)
work on building structures like that. But yeah, there are a lot of challenges. I will tell you, I am 54 years old. I'm not 26. And so I had a whole life without computers. then, like when I went to college, I had a typewriter, right, or a word processor, like that even have computers. And so and I am not a naturally like, I like I don't love computers, right. And so my biggest challenge, like from a
Bryan (15:38)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (15:57)
business point of view was learning. did. So I started, I'll tell you real quick. So I started, after I, I took the certification, the T con Campbell certification, like pretty quickly after like we switched to a plant based diet, I just discovered all this stuff and I just dove right in. And then after that, I got the board certification, but it occurred to me that, you know, what people are missing, like I would always think back to my typical patient in my clinic.
And yeah, no one's gonna like not get a pacemaker when they need it in the United States of America. And there are things to be clear, people that are watching this, sometimes you will need anticoagulants, you will need a pacemaker, you may need a defibrillator, you may need things like this and they're absolutely warranted. Even plant -based cardiologists gonna recommend this. But a lot of what we do is like, a lot of the stents and statins are we...
have a lot of data that that's not the most effective way. But people are not getting just this foundational education that they need to address the root cause. Granted, not everyone is gonna change their life 100 % when they hear this, but there are people that are open to this. And so that's why I created my education platform for people.
Bryan (16:57)
Right.
Stephanie Spencer (17:20)
that are ready to address the root cause of their disease. And so I started out, just rented a room in 2020, wouldn't you know, January of 2020. And I had a live class. I like advertising on Facebook. I think I got like 35 people. And so I created a course to address all the typical chronic disease things. So I start out, class one is, it was a four week program.
Bryan (17:34)
You
That's awesome.
Stephanie Spencer (17:47)
Class one is where do you get your protein? Because I feel like people just cannot, like you can't just, I couldn't switch to plant -based diet just with like a bumper sticker, like, you know, say the animals or whatever. Right, like, yeah, like I needed it explained to me, right? So I spent two hours explaining everything from the China study. So you can understand that you can get all your protein and in fact, it's a better kind of protein, right?
Bryan (17:53)
Mm -hmm.
Plants have protein. Yeah, exactly.
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (18:15)
Then class two is all about type two diabetes. Class three is you're as old as your arteries, all about heart disease. And then class four is weight loss. But these are all the things, you know, like, and if you're young and healthy and have no exposure to the medical field, you may think these things are rare. But those of us in the medical field, like by the time you get to be in your sixties, seventies, virtually every human has these problems to one degree or another. Okay.
Bryan (18:15)
Mm
Mm
Great. Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (18:42)
And so that's what I want to address is the most common problems. Okay. So, so anyway, I started my live course. it went really well. And then right after, and then I class. Like then I was like, moved on to a different church and didn't start my second class, got one class in and COVID hit. So I had to finish up my course on zoom or that, that live class that I was doing. anyway, at that point, then I had to like, then I was like,
Bryan (18:53)
Pandemic.
my goodness.
Stephanie Spencer (19:11)
like this is a different world. like prior to COVID, like those of us that are just like normal, regular people, not computer wizards, like we do things in the real world, right? Well, now we had to switch to all Zoom as everyone knows. It took me a long time to like figure out a website. Like I've never, I never hired anything out. kind of am a hands -on type of person. So like I made myself figure out how to build a website.
Bryan (19:15)
Yeah.
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (19:40)
And then I built an online course with a course platform. And then I recorded all my courses. And anyway, so I did all that. And it was not easy. RNs don't have to have any computer skills at all. You will have them at a stable job until the day you die. You don't have to have any computer skills. And so I had quite a learning curve once COVID hit. And I was trying to do this education thing. But yeah, so I finally did transfer all over.
Bryan (19:55)
Right.
That's right.
Stephanie Spencer (20:10)
And then, and then like, started to try to figure out the social media stuff. So I do have Facebook and Instagram and YouTube. really, honestly, I like the YouTube format the best. I, it makes me crazy to like, try to like condense everything down to 30 seconds. Like I want things thoroughly. But, but yeah, like for me, there was a big learning curve with all of this, social media and, and.
Bryan (20:29)
Yeah, yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (20:40)
things like that. to this day, what I love doing best and I do have this, I think I'll have a link in the show notes, but I do a lot of individualized coaching too. And most of my clients are people that have gotten a recommendation from their cardiologist or like, for example, they've gone to the ER and thought they were having a heart attack and it was ruled out.
but then they were just mortified that the ER doctor did not sit down with them and talk about having a dynamic health -filled life, you know, or their cardiologist doesn't talk to them about how to prevent heart disease or how to prevent it, or how to do nutrition. they just, it's like they need some verification that that's crazy. And they're right, it is crazy, but...
Bryan (21:25)
That's right, yeah, it's so true.
Stephanie Spencer (21:39)
I have worked with cardiologists my whole life and cardiologists are highly trained and we do need cardiologists. We still need cardiologists, even though like a lot of us are figuring out plant based nutrition, you may have a valvular problem, you may still need a cardiologist. Interventional cardiologists are highly skilled, highly trained, have done years of fellowships to get to where they are. It is rare that they want to spend a lot of time with nutrition.
And I don't blame them. mean, they've spent a lot of time getting to where they are, but a cardiologist that has insight and perspective will understand that nutrition is just not the thing that they do. Okay. And then they can refer you to someone that does focus on nutrition. There's like maybe 10 cardiologists. There's more. There's more every day. We keep, I keep finding more on YouTube of cardiologists that have figured out.
Bryan (22:31)
Yeah, yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (22:37)
know, lifestyle medicine and plant -based nutrition. But that's not the norm and you are right. And it's normal as a regular person to be shocked by that. anyway, so lots of times I spend a lot of time. Yeah.
Bryan (22:47)
That's right, yeah.
Well, it goes to, it goes to show in my mind like that we need to pay our teachers, our nurses and our nutritionists and our fitness instructors a whole bunch more money. Cause those are the, those gateways. I, one of my first jobs in the healthcare field was working for a, an emergency department software company. And I got to interview so many emergency room doctors. said, how do you stay out of the emergency room? It's pretty easy diet, exercise, and don't do something stupid.
Stephanie Spencer (23:09)
Mm
We all -
Bryan (23:18)
You do those three things, you will avoid the emergency room.
Stephanie Spencer (23:21)
Every doctor knows that. Like we all know that in the medical field, but it's all about the diet. But you're like, that's not my job. I'm here when you're having a heart attack. Like we also need people that are there in the cath lab as you're inflicting, you know. in our medical system, we don't put any effort into prevention. Now I will tell you the, in 2011,
Bryan (23:25)
Yeah, that's right.
That's right. That's right.
That's right, that's right.
Stephanie Spencer (23:48)
Medicare did approve a program called Intensive Cardiac Rehab, which comprises like the Ornish program and the Pritikin program, which is a plant -based program. It's generally plant -based, depending on how it's taught. they do, Medicare does pay for that. like hospitals will have this Intensive Cardiac Rehab program, but to get in, to be able to get the information,
about how to switch to a plant -based diet and do exercise and yoga and all that stuff. You have to have already had a heart attack, already had bypass surgery, already had your stent, or the lowest diagnosis is chronic stable angina. I mean, like you have unrelenting chest pain. So like the system will not pay for you to get this information to prevent the heart disease. You have to already have it.
Bryan (24:36)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (24:46)
And so that's why I created... Right, that's why I have my course is so you don't have to... You don't want to just go down the path of least resistance and then say like, what should I do to people that are really just treating the symptoms when your life is in danger? You want to... And you have to be more proactive yourself. Like the system isn't going to lead you to this. You have to seek it out yourself. And yeah, so that's...
Bryan (24:46)
Not not yet. We're hoping to change this. Yeah, that's right.
That's right. That's right.
Stephanie Spencer (25:14)
That's why I have my online course and then I do the coaching too when people are like, is this crazy or what? And I can verify for them that yes, it's crazy. But we also do sometimes need to avail ourselves of what we call allopathic medicine and that's the traditional medicine. And I work a lot with like different, like doctors at Love .Life Telehealth, Dr. Keri O 'Connor is a good friend of mine.
She's licensed in Arkansas. But that's something that we talk about. Like the more we've discovered about lifestyle medicine and plant -based nutrition, and that does like really fix about 80 % of the problems, but we still have to avail ourselves of, sometimes we do need invasive procedures, sometimes we do need medications, but sometimes you have to talk to someone that knows both fields so that you can feel confident that you're getting the right information.
Bryan (25:44)
That's right.
That's right.
Stephanie Spencer (26:12)
area that people don't often have access to.
Bryan (26:17)
But it's, interesting cause we've talked about this a couple of times now throughout, throughout this, know, and I want to get your perspective on like, how, how do you see us needing to change dietary guidelines at the government level to impact the public health policy and help really start to change the curve of those healthcare costs? Cause cause if they want to speak with you or other people like you, they have to pay out of pocket. That's not reimbursable typically yet.
Stephanie Spencer (26:32)
Yeah.
Bryan (26:45)
But it needs to be, because if we just get them that education, we can help shift this. But my concern with the subsidies for milk and dairy and meat and all that stuff is the system's just not set up for that. how do we, what is your perspective on the public health changes that need to be made?
Stephanie Spencer (26:46)
right.
I, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on that. I mean, it's kind of like, where do you start? Like in a way, you know, like people, like what we're doing right now, this is a good pinch hit, system for people that, and like, you can figure out a lot just on your own, you know, sometimes watching YouTube videos or just reading, read the China study, you know, read things like that. to change public policy, it,
Bryan (27:09)
Yeah.
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (27:31)
I think requires, the system is so broken. Like our dietary guidelines are written by the agriculture, the Department of Agriculture. Okay, the job of the Department of Agriculture is to move agricultural products, right? Like their job is not, like the dietary guidelines should be under the purview of the Center for Disease Control or, you know, like it shouldn't be an agricultural
Bryan (27:47)
Right.
Increase the economy, not help the health, right?
Stephanie Spencer (28:01)
product type of field, you know? And so these things are going to take a long time to change. And they have changed. They changed slowly. Like Dr. Neal Bernard's organization, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, sues the USDA guidelines like every time that they release their new guidelines. And that does change. I mean, like you will win in a court of law because you're right. But, and like I think one time the USDA or the US dietary guidelines
quoted the American College of Cardiology as saying that they like recommended saturated fat or something. I can't remember exactly what it was, but was something, and the ACC was like, we absolutely have never said that. And they took them to court. So it's requiring legal action. So that will change a little bit. But I think also just by creating an alternate system in the meantime, while we're waiting to.
Bryan (28:45)
Great.
Stephanie Spencer (29:00)
kind of reform the current system, which is so far gone. And like, you you have your plant -based plate with divided into four with the, you know, fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes and stuff like that. But yeah, that's a big thing. like, again, this is where the American College of Lifestyle Medicine comes in. We can't really legislate everything, you know, like it would be good if we could.
Bryan (29:01)
them to catch up. Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (29:29)
But we have to recognize that much of our government is captured by special interests. And so like a lot of guidelines are just are promoted by special interest, like their interests are going to represent 60 % and then 40 % might be the public health, right? But if we have an alternate organization like ACLM that 100 % represents the interests
Bryan (29:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (29:58)
of the patient, then we can see the contrast. And the American College of Lifestyle Medicine is slowly gaining more more prominence within the American Medical Association as well, the umbrella agency. so, yeah, it's just, a lot of it is just building alternate paths. So there are reimbursement mechanisms like drop -in group medical appointments where like a plant -based doctor
can bill for like six people sitting in a room talking about plant -based nutrition because a lot of lifestyle medicine is education, right? And our system is a volume business that is fee for service. so like, I mean, like in cardiology, for example, which is a very high profit field, like no one makes any money off of office visits and like they...
will subcontract their office visits to lot of mid levels like APNs and PAs. And then the doctors like just doing the procedures over and over and over. Cause like you can be a doctor of 40 years that's like debaky or someone that's the most august, you know, cardiothoracic surgeon, or you can be just out of school. You get the same amount for Medicare, right? For your procedure. You can't, there's no, there's no system in the medical field where you're like, do you know who I am? And they get more money for their procedure.
Bryan (30:56)
Mm
That's right.
Stephanie Spencer (31:22)
So it's a volume business. So if you want to make more money, you just have to create a huge, like a conveyor belt factory system. And, and so yeah, lifestyle medicine or education is never going to be as much money as doing a lot of like eight, you know, incredibly complex, invasive procedures a day.
But we are creating little mechanisms. So I think slowly, and then also because when we talk about addressing the cause of type two diabetes and hypertension and heart disease, well, this applies to about half of the population, okay? And so doctors that are smart, like the late John McDougall or doctors like this, they create a program. And well, I mean,
Bryan (32:08)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (32:20)
it applies to everyone. You can have a low price point for like a program that you create and there will be hundreds of thousands of people that will benefit from that, you know. So there's different ways of doing things but for a physician that's 20, 30 years into their career, it is very difficult, almost impossible to just switch to lifestyle medicine.
Bryan (32:33)
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (32:46)
because you got the golden handcuffs situation, you know. But new students, like new med students coming out, like I think if you could do loan forgiveness for people that go into lifestyle medicine and primary care, like that should be, I mean, that's my suggestion. Yeah.
Bryan (32:47)
That's right.
That's right. That's very true.
Mm -hmm.
I love it. No, I mean, there's there's several different tips and tricks you gave gave there. I mean, I think there has to be more new paths for reimbursement. I'm curious how AI is going to affect things over the next few years. And then, you know, loan forgiveness, little ways that we can nudge people the right way is is amazing. So.
Stephanie Spencer (33:14)
you
Right. Yeah, and if we had just like overall health care reform, I mean, our system is so Byzantine, like at my old hospital, I mean, like you probably know about this, like we had to have an entire building just for the billers, you know? If we had a single payer system, just have like, already have Medicare.
Bryan (33:32)
Well, there's that too. Yeah.
That's right.
Almost every company I've worked with has a team. There's never one biller. There's always a team of billers that every company I've seen and it's insane.
Stephanie Spencer (33:53)
No, no, but you could just automate the billing. There's no need for third party insurance. I mean, this is the biggest grift in history. They're just taking money from the tax. I mean, like, it's just crazy. But yeah, you could just automate the billing and then use all those savings to like, yeah, forgive the loans of family practice doctors that want to go into lifestyle medicine.
Bryan (33:58)
Right.
Stephanie Spencer (34:22)
And then you just treat the cause. then what they really need to do is create, this is what I think we should do in ACLM, create a paradigm where you could like certify chefs for disease reversal foods. Okay. And say like, you know, it needs to be no oil. It needs to be this percent of fiber, this percent of fat. And we'll call this like a diabetes reversal meal.
Bryan (34:41)
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (34:50)
and then have a way to certify that. And then insurance starts paying for the food. Because like there are programs where, you know, like they'll have, you know, like double up food bucks with snap benefits and stuff like at farmers markets. They've got little things like that. But in reality, people that don't have a lot of money and don't have a lot of time are not really able to like be all Martha Stewart and grow their own food and stuff like that. But if they could just get the food prepared.
Bryan (34:57)
Yep, I love it.
Stephanie Spencer (35:19)
You know, like, I mean, there's got to be ways that you could do that, but start to reimburse for the food. And that would make, that would change everything. Yeah.
Bryan (35:20)
Mm
That's right.
That's right.
I agree. see that on a lot of different levels. So, but getting let's let's go back to your business with the natural state of health. What what long term impact do you hope to achieve and what what are some of the scaling things that you're trying to do to grow your business? Talk to us about that for a few minutes.
Stephanie Spencer (35:37)
Mm
Mm
It is, well, yes, I'll tell you, I have noticed that like the social media world is, I think, getting very crowded, right? And so it's harder to like really, and there's so many courses, like, and I think people get fatigued from like so much stuff coming at them. It is hard to,
Bryan (36:17)
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (36:23)
pay your bills with some kind of online venture like that, truly. Unless you're just a born social media influencer type, which I am not. am more, most of us are not, right? But yeah, mean, I like to work in my local community.
Bryan (36:37)
Right. Most of us are not. Right.
Stephanie Spencer (36:50)
I do lots of presentations to like different civic organizations. I, but that's another reason like why I have my micro greens business. You eat the micro greens, you're going to need more next week. Right. I mean, I like having a product that just like it's, it's predictable. I crank it out. Like restaurants need it, you know, like people use it. have lots of customers that, my gosh, that go through like.
Bryan (37:01)
Mm -hmm.
That's right, that's right.
Stephanie Spencer (37:19)
I can't tell you like 20 ounces, like a pound of microgreens a week. Like they've got to be the healthiest people on earth. But,
Bryan (37:24)
Wow. I wish you lived closer. I would love a fresh delivery every week.
Stephanie Spencer (37:29)
Yeah, I'll put you on my list. But I think a big part of changing the trajectory is just having the food. And I do have physicians that refer patients to me. And a lot of physicians, I I've worked with specialists my whole life. And I respect what they do. Not every.
People tend to think that doctors A, know everything, possess all human knowledge, you know, or a lot of people do. And then they're shocked that they don't know about nutrition, right? But like, mean, I think these days, maybe people have kind of figured that out that they don't do nutrition, but there's a lot of doctors that are like, every doctor knows that nutrition matters, whether they specialize in that or not. And so a lot of them,
like are looking for someone to refer to, right? Someone to say like, like, like we all have patients sitting, I mean, we all in the medical field, you know, the patient will come in and you're like, my gosh, they have so many, like, you know, it's the food, but you, have seven minutes, you know, and they just don't, where do you even start? Right. And so what I recommend for any physicians that may be listening to this is you need to develop a, a simple, like,
Bryan (38:31)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, that's right.
Stephanie Spencer (38:56)
three minute line of some statistics, how changing dietary pattern is much more effective than any of these other things. Usually, the doctor services are still going to be needed for many different things for your total knee replacements and valve replacement.
Bryan (39:16)
Yeah. And it's we've, we've elevated the doctors to such a high level. If they say it, we will listen. But if I say it or our pastor says it or whoever else says it, it's not good enough. The doctor has to say it and then they'll go find you, you know, and it'd be great if the doctor could say it and say, here are three people you should speak to find the right personality to match with what you need. but, it's not there yet. So that, that is super, super helpful.
Stephanie Spencer (39:26)
Right.
Right, right.
Right. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
And I'll tell you also in my course, like in the introductory section, have, because my philosophy is that like, say you're sitting out there right now and you have an A1C of 7 .4 and you're hypertensive and you're taking blood pressure pills and statins and you know, like going to the doctor like every three weeks or so with another thing that pops up. To start out, if you want to transform your health, you don't need a plant -based doc.
you just need to change your food, okay? And you generally need some direction to do that. And that's like why I created my course. But in the introductory section of my course, I have a section, because most people love their primary care doctor, whether they may know anything about plant -based nutrition or reversing chronic disease or not, and they're attached to them. So I have a whole section which is educate your doctor.
Bryan (40:16)
Mm
Mm -hmm.
Right. Right.
Stephanie Spencer (40:44)
and you can just print off a PDF that I have and you hand it to your doctor. And on that PDF, have a ton of resources for your primary care doctor. I have a 5 .5 hour CME continuing medical education course from the American College of Lifestyle Medicine that your doctor can get CME credit for, otherwise it costs them like $500. And they can get credit and learn
Bryan (40:50)
I love it, my gosh.
Right.
Stephanie Spencer (41:13)
all about the basics, the fundamentals of lifestyle medicine and how it's effective at reversing chronic disease. I have a deeper striving. Yes. So there's all sorts of information that you can get to hand to your doctor so you can educate your doctor that this thing exists, that the type two diabetes white paper from the American College of Lifestyle Medicine in which we say that it is unethical.
Bryan (41:22)
Let's make sure that's in the show notes. Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (41:41)
to only treat the symptoms of a disease if a cure is known. I have a type two diabetes patient bill of rights that says you have the right to have access to this information. But anyway, but there's like, so for example, you can start and I encourage all my students to do this to like try to evangelize your doctor, give your doctor access to all this information and then they'll realize, there like many doctors have never heard of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. They don't know that this exists.
But it's hard, and it is a thing that like when you go to a doctor's office, they're gonna be like, you've been looking on the internet, you know, they kind of have that like look of terror. But if you can show them like this is a medical specialty, you know, and show them all these reputable sources, that will really help your doctor and your doctor, you don't have to get a board certification in lifestyle medicine. ACLM has like a type two diabetes remission course, I believe.
Bryan (42:18)
Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (42:38)
It's just 18 hours. Like, so any doctor can learn about reversing type 2 diabetes. That's all you do is just see diabetes and hypertension all day long, you know? So there's a ton of resources, but yeah, that's one place to start. But anyway, but when you start out, you just need to, if you have an inkling that you want to change your diet, just start eating the food, okay? You know, like...
Bryan (42:40)
Mm -hmm.
That's right. I know.
Stephanie Spencer (43:04)
cut out the animal protein, start buying plant -based milk, then learn how to make like your cashew dressings, learn how to use mushrooms, just things like that. But then I do feel that after people have been plant -based for maybe like six months, certainly a year, then it is useful to follow up with a lifestyle medicine physician to check and see if maybe you need any...
specialized blood work, checking things like, you know, your mega three levels, you know, like you check B12, iodine, different things like evaluate you, but it's going to be like six months to a year before you would need that. At the beginning, just start the food. And that's basically what you need. But, and you can go to like PlantritionProject .org, I think is what it is.
Bryan (43:35)
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (44:01)
and find lifestyle medicine doctors in your area. But yeah, people just need the education and the confidence to get started. So like in my course, you know, I have like cooking techniques, show how to like make grains in an instant pot, how to saute without oil, you know, like all the recipes, stuff like that. But there's a well
Bryan (44:24)
And that's a key one right there, making sure you not only switch to the whole food plant base, but you have to cut back on the salt and the oil and some of those other things too. Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (44:32)
Right. Right. Yeah. You just won't, you won't make, you won't make enough of a decisive difference that you want to keep going. Like a lot of it, you know, it is hard. It's hard to switch to plant -based diet because no one else is doing it. Right. And then you're the weirdo at the restaurant or you're the weirdo at, know, at every holiday. But, but when you start to see drastic changes in your personal health, that's what motivates you to keep going.
Bryan (44:43)
Right.
Mm
Stephanie Spencer (45:01)
And so you really have to eliminate the oil, really like seriously cut back on that salt. I have a whole section about salt. Yeah, but it'll make a big difference. And yeah, you have to notice decisive health changes, I think, in order to want to keep going. So it's better to just rip the band -aid off and go hardcore than it is to just.
Bryan (45:02)
That's right.
That's It is. That's what I did. I I feel like at that point then I regressed back to dairy and cheese for a few years. But then when I made that decision, I just did it again, cold turkey like that. So Stephanie, this has been amazing. You are clearly changing the world with what you're doing at Natural State of Health and the micro green business. How do people get in touch with you? What are the best ways and how can we as a community help you?
Stephanie Spencer (45:39)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
So, I'll tell you, to get in touch with me, go to my website, naturalstateplantbased .com. First of all, if you'd like to learn more about this, if you subscribe on my website, you will immediately get a video, a one hour video where I just explain the basics of protein, type two diabetes, heart disease, the research, like how it's, it's just one hour. if you're brand new, and these are my favorite people, are the ones that are.
new to plant -based nutrition because you will you will experience such drastic changes. anyway yeah so subscribe you'll get that video you'll get my famous smoothie recipe which has microgreens and all sorts 24 grams of fiber just start eating that for breakfast. And then you can check out my courses I have many courses too. You can
I can do individualized coaching. I have a contact section. You can just send me a message or naturalstateplantbased at gmail .com is my email. So you can email me anytime. And then I'm also on Instagram and Facebook and YouTube at naturalstateplantbased. And then you can message me through any of that as well. Yeah.
But yeah, I would say just, and to help me, if you can just post the links, just check out the links below. But I really like working with folks that have been struggling with all these chronic disease issues for years and you just feel like you don't have anyone to talk to. I also like, can do individualized coaching. We can do individualized coaching with you and your spouse or you and your mother. Like I have a lot of experience with what I call
to Jesus conversations with people that are nearing a health crisis and they just need to have like a little bit of tough love that they need to hear some things that they don't want to hear and before you get basically painted into a corn because our options get to where they are less and less and you know like I have a lot of experience with people that are in a health crisis
Bryan (47:49)
Hmm.
That's right.
Stephanie Spencer (48:15)
And I kind of do miss being in the medical field for that reason. I mean, like in the plant -based world, we've got a lot of chefs and stuff like that. But I like to work with people that this is all new to them. And that like, I'm not a former Olympian. I'm a regular person. And I know what it's like to struggle with many chronic diseases and not have the energy to cook. And I saw that in my patients all the time. And so that's kind of who I, my
Bryan (48:21)
Mm -hmm.
Stephanie Spencer (48:45)
all my coursework and my expertise I think is best directed to, yeah.
Bryan (48:50)
I love it. Cause I, we've, we've talked with a few other people, you know, that have got their license and experiences through ACLM and other things like that. And it's so unique how each of you have your little niches of where you want to target. And I do think the people that are in that more dire state with your nursing background and everything, like you're the person to steer, to steer towards for that, that kind of a need. So I love it. That is a wrap. That's right.
Stephanie Spencer (48:58)
Mm
Yeah. Yeah. And you're not alone. You just have to, you have to discover the plant -based algorithm. Once you start, especially if you're older, you're kind of new to this thing. Look, just start subscribing and then the algorithm is going to figure that. Yeah. You got to be careful though. You can get steered the wrong way, but like, yeah, you'll start to find more plant -based people. And then, yeah, you can get, you can get a lot of information just from like,
Bryan (49:21)
Mm -hmm.
There's lots of friends out there. That's right. Yeah.
Stephanie Spencer (49:40)
this common, the knowledge commons that we have here. And yeah, it's a great place to be. So welcome.
Bryan (49:45)
That's right.
Well, that is a wrap for today. Thank you so much again, Stephanie, for joining us on the Plant Based on Fire podcast. If you're driving through Little Rock, reach out to Stephanie and grab some micro greens or stop in and say hi or reach out to her on her website. Again, that is naturalstateplantbased .com. Don't forget to subscribe, like and rate and share our little episode here. And until next time, everybody keep the fire burning. Thanks, Stephanie.
Stephanie Spencer (50:17)
Take care, Bryan, thanks.
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