Mark Huberman: Vegan from Birth!

Mark Huberman, president of the National Health Association (NHA), has lived a unique life—he’s been vegan since birth! On a recent episode of The Glen Merzer Show, Mark shared his fascinating journey of growing up on a raw fruits and vegetables diet, an experience unlike many others, and how it shaped his health and philosophy on food.

Mark’s parents were pioneers of the whole food, plant-based movement, choosing a Sheltonian diet of raw fruits and vegetables for their newborn despite societal pressure to follow traditional norms like vaccinating and giving cow’s milk. Mark thrived on this raw diet for 32 years, enjoying simple, unprocessed foods. He described it as “a health foundation that’s worked well for me,” but eventually transitioned to cooked foods, beginning with wild rice and vegetables during a trip to Italy.

In the podcast, Mark emphasized the importance of whole, natural foods, echoing the philosophy of natural hygiene and health pioneers like Dr. Herbert Shelton and T. Colin Campbell. “God didn’t make too many mistakes when he made us,” he says, pointing to the natural world as the ideal source of nutrition.

In addition to his role with the NHA, Mark has had a long career as an attorney and magistrate, often involved in cases that relate to veganism. He is also the editor of Health Science Magazine, a publication dedicated to educating the plant-based community on the benefits of natural, whole foods. The NHA’s annual conference continues to be a focal point for health advocates to share their knowledge and support one another.

Mark’s life story is a powerful testament to the health benefits of a plant-based diet. Whether you’re a lifelong vegan or just starting out, his journey is an inspiring reminder that natural foods are key to long-lasting vitality.

Watch the full episode of here: Mark Huberman: Vegan from Birth!

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DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here: Mark Huberman: Vegan from Birth!

Glen Merzer: Welcome to the Glen Merzer show. can find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You can find us on YouTube. Please remember to subscribe. You can find us at RealMenEatPlants .com. My guest today, Mark Huberman, is president of the National Health Association and editor of this beautiful magazine, the Health Science Magazine. He's been on a healthy whole plant food diet since birth. He's also an attorney and has served as administrator of the Ohio Association of Magistrates. And did I mention he's been a vegan since birth. Mark, welcome to the show. 

Mark Huberman: Good to be here, Glen. 

Glen Merzer: Tell us how it is that you were a vegan from birth. Was that your decision or what? 

Mark Huberman: Well, I wasn't making too many decisions at birth, but My parents were real pioneers in this kind of lifestyle. like a lot of people, you know, that old saying, most people don't worry about their health until after they've lost it. My parents had some health problems. They had just kind of discovered vegetarianism and this kind of lifestyle, but they, you know, were newbies to it. And when I was born, they were doing heretical things like not wanting to vaccinate me and not wanting to give me cow's milk. And, and, A lot of pressure was put on them by family members and short story long, as best as I understand it, my mother was trying to breastfeed me. Her milk spoiled because of all the emotions that my mother was going through. I was born this eight pound, five ounce, very happy kid. And six months later, I was six pounds, eight ounces, like a pack of bones. And they took me to one of the founders of the NHA was a guy by the name of Dr. Gerald Benish, who happened to be in Cleveland at the kind of put me under his care, pulled through that little health crisis. And somehow not even knowing much about veganism or anything or really new people in the whole food plant based vegetarian vegan lifestyle. My parents thought that the ideal diet was the Sheltonian diet, the Dr. Shelton diet. And that was raw fruits and vegetables. And so they launched me on that path. Even though they weren't living that way themselves, they weren't. They were vegetarians, not even vegans. I have an older brother who wasn't living that way, but they just thought that got me through that health crisis. It was the right thing to do. And so they raised me on raw fruits and vegetables. And that's the way I grew up. And that's the way I lived for 32 and a half years. I enjoyed it. Never thought anything wrong with it. And I suppose I say I thrived on it. It didn't stop me from enjoying life. And so that's what I did. I've never.

Glen Merzer: Frankly, never met anybody like me. It's been raised that way, but. Right. Neither have I. I've met other people raised as vegans, but not raw. So you had your first cooked meal at the age of thirty two and a half. 

Mark Huberman: I did. did. 

Glen Merzer: So tell us that story. 

Mark Huberman: Well, so the story was I was on I was married before and I was on a honeymoon in Athens and Rome and Greece and Italy. And one day, the way I always traveled is that I always had a brown bag of a banana and an orange and some cashews and trail mix before people knew what trail mix was. And that's the way I traveled. And usually when you're traveling abroad, you can always find a fruit market or a fruit stand or you can find something to get you through. But for whatever reason, on this particular day of a long trip from Rome to Naples to Sorrento to the Isle of Capri, my food kind of ran out on a hot day about three o 'clock in the afternoon. We're winding our way back to Rome that evening and they stopped at an Italian restaurant. And if I ate a baked potato, they had a baked potato. If I cooked green beans, they had cooked green beans. If I ate a salad with, you know, kind of like all kinds of funny dressings on it, I could probably get a salad. But there was really nothing for me to eat. And when I came back to the hotel that night, I was hungry and I thought to myself, well, why am I, why am I on this raw food diet? Am I on this raw food diet because it's the only thing I know or because I think it's essential? Let me cut that off by the way. Or is because the only thing I know or is it because the people in this health movement were advocating it as the ideal diet? And as it turned out, the people in this health movement, whom I am contemporary, not a Joel Fuhrman and Alan Goldhamer and Frank Sabatino, While they all thought and still think to this day that raw foods are wonderful and that should be the predominant part of your diet, there's no reason, I have, none of them thought that that was necessary to maintain health. And in fact, most of them felt that actually, you you can't eat too many beans raw. can't eat too many, you can eat kale, but it's, a lot of greens are not the most delicious things eating raw. And then a lot of people, I think they find that actually, as they get older, actually find that cooked foods are more digestible for them in soups and stews. And so anyway, I just kind of reached the conclusion that really I'm not doing this for, because I thought it was essential to my health. It was just because it's what I've always done and certainly given me a good health foundation, but it wasn't necessary to maintain good health. So I decided when I came home from Italy that I would try my mother was an excellent, you know, a vegan vegetarian cook and made great eggplant patties and corn on the cob and wild rice that she cooked in vegetable juice before people know knew about using And was great. I tried it and I liked it. I can't say 

Glen Merzer: what was your first cooked food. 

Mark Huberman: I had wild rice and vegetables, 

Glen Merzer: wild rice and vegetables, 

Mark Huberman: all rice and vegetables cooked in. My mother liked to wild rice and carrot and celery juice, gave it a natural sodium and all that. 

Glen Merzer: So did you come did you come home and say, Mom, come on, I'm 32 already. Can I have some cooked food? 

Mark Huberman: Never, never. And, know, it's actually even growing up when we were a very Jewish, a traditional Jewish household. And for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur and Thanksgiving and Passover, the family always got together and everybody else ate what everybody else ate. And I was never tempted to, know, my aunts and uncles would say, here, Mark, you have this, but don't tell your mom. It never worked because taste is kind of learned to hate. I was never interested in that stuff. 

Glen Merzer: So how did you enjoy your first meal of wild rice? 

Mark Huberman: You know, it was a little unusual, I guess, kind of the Humorous thing maybe for me is that growing up on raw foods, I never had anything hot in my mouth. Right. It was kind of an interesting experience, but I realized that you don't have to put something in your mouth scalding hot. You could let it cool. Yeah. 

Glen Merzer: So I did. you ever drink tea?

 I never did. I did not. I did not. 

Glen Merzer: So do you drink tea now?

Mark Huberman: I do not. I do not. And it's kind of a phenomenon that growing up like I did. you know, I've never had a pizza. I've never had a burger. And so even though now there are vegan pizzas and veggie burgers and all this, that's not where my tastes are. I mean, I'll try them and they're interesting. But to me, they are just concoctions that are just a little foreign to me. And if I didn't like a regular pizza, why would I want a vegan pizza? If I didn't like a regular burger, why would I want a veggie burger? So I'm still a pretty simple guy. And the only difference that's changed in the last, you know, the second half of my, you 32 and a half years or not, actually a more than that, now 40 some years, I like the back nine here a little bit. I, the only differences than the old days when I would have, you know, a salad for dinner and some avocado and some nuts and things like that afterwards. Now, if I don't have a cooked meal, I'm kind of hungry. I do like soup, I do like split pea soup or stuffed pepper or something like that. I sort of, it's kind of an adaptation to my satiation of what makes me comfortable. So if I don't have a cooked meal, I'm kind of hungry. It's really at night only. don't even, for breakfast, you know, typical, I like my fruit for breakfast and an overnight oatmeal and that lunch. I like a pita pocket and a salad. Dinner, I like a salad. soup and something like that. But I'm still pretty simple. I would say that I'm still probably 80 % raw foods. And I think that's still a right thing. think whole natural foods is still the best way to sustain health in nature's way, organic and unprocessed. 

Glen Merzer: Now, there are studies that point to health benefits of green tea. Why don't you drink tea?

Mark Huberman: You know, I don't, guess I don't, I guess I don't, I'm not a fan of the whole notion of superfood kind of concepts. I am, and maybe it's just part of the philosophic way I look at life. I look at, you know, whole natural food. I'm at T. Colin Campbell School. But the more natural it is, the more simple it is. And I'm not a fan of superfoods, whether it's, I mean, I think chia seeds are great and flax seeds are great, but do elevate them to a level that I think, gee, if I just eat, you know, if I ate, you know, this is going to give me super health. I don't attach that kind of super status to anything. And I don't think it's necessary. I eat the rainbow foods, broad whole food, whole natural plant food diet. And I think I'm sustained pretty well. So I don't really worry. You know, people talk about olive oil, know, extra virgin olive oil with the extra polyphenols and all these things that come along time to time, beetroot powder, I guess they're all okay, but I don't look to them as like a secret tonic.

Glen Merzer:  Now, do you drink smoothies? 

Mark Huberman: You know, I do from time to time, but again, philosophically, you know, I do it more as a thing to quench my thirst and all that, but I'm of a whole natural food guy. And I think that's the best. And again, I don't even want to project my personal experience on everybody else, is what's right for me and what's right for everybody else. I don't know. It's worked for me. I just turned 73 years old. I don't think I act like I'm 73 years old. I tumble around with my grandchild, my grandchildren, and I have lots of energy and all that. So it's worked for me pretty well. So That's the most. I'm not a doctor. I don't play one on TV. I know what's worked for me well, and I know what's given me a pretty good birthright. And I really enjoy my whole natural foods. And I don't ascribe a lot of priority to green tea or black tea or special spices or beetroot powder or whatever it is. I rely on the simplicity of

Glen Merzer: So do you generally just drink water?

Mark Huberman:  I don't even generally drink water. know, growing up, when I grew up, you know, I loved orange juice in the morning and I grew up with carrot juice and, in the early days, but I don't even do that. I mean, you eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables. You don't have a lot for me. Again, I'm just speaking Mark Huberman. I don't find myself thirsty a lot. If I'm working out at the gym.And I do that pretty religiously three days a week. I'll have some water. But I don't drink a lot of water because it's just, again, it's not the way I grew up. It doesn't seem to be a need of mine to have. And again, eating tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers and cantaloupe and watermelon, I think I'm pretty hydrated physiologically. 

Glen Merzer: That's interesting because I often make the case of how the water content of the kind of whole plant food diet that we both subscribe to is so important, but you're the first one I know to basically just rely on that. 

Mark Huberman: Yeah, I don't, again, I don't rely. don't not rely. If I'm thirsty, I'll get a glass of water, but I don't do it as a supplement or as a nutritional necessity. I don't. I don't plan or guide my daily meals that way. I do take B12. know, like most of us say, we should take B12. test. if my B12 is a little low, I do take B12. I do take a D3 because I test and sometimes my D3 level a little bit. But I even take that with a grain just because. 

Glen Merzer: Speaking of testing, what's your philosophy of going to the doctor? Do you have an annual? How are your how are your blood work levels like cholesterol? Tell us about that. 

Mark Huberman: They're all fine. They're all normal. Again, B12 and D3 are the only the only ones that have ever, you know, they seem to fluctuate a little bit. Come in the north. You know, you don't always have the sunshine and all that stuff. But for me, that's what I do. I I believe again, I'm not the T. Colin Campbell, Herbert Shelton, natural hygiene school. You know, God didn't make too many mistakes when he made us. He's provided for us and in the whole, in the rainbow of whole natural foods consumed in their natural state, you'll do pretty fine.

Glen Merzer:  But do you believe in going for an annual checkup or do you go to the doctor only? 

Mark Huberman: Yeah, I do that. I I guess what I also think kind of humbly is that even though I think that I have this wonderful birthright that I've been growing up with that there are no guarantees. know, we're surrounded, you know, we're all prisoners to some degree of our heredity, of our environment, of stresses, of emotional problems, of toxins in the air and in our homes and toxic products we use and all that. So there's always that kind of danger. And I could develop a brain tumor tomorrow. I don't think I will. I make choices every day about what I put on my plate and how much sleep I get and how much exercise I get to hedge against that and I think those are all the right choices to make, but it could happen. I don't think that following a whole food plant -based diet is a guarantee of anything. It's just a hedge. It's a hedge against all of the other things of life and you know, but those are the conscious choices I make every day. I do believe that you know, I look I had a tooth went bad and had to have an implant. It was kind of in the back and there was nothing to bridge onto, so I needed an implant. Well, I had to take antibiotics to, you know, when that happened preventively and all that, but no guarantee that I'm going to hold on to all my teeth. So, but that's why I brush every day and floss more than I used to, because once you lose one, you realize always be true to your teeth and they'll never be false to you is kind of important. And so, but there's no guarantee. I have hearing aids. Really, I I I've had a hearing loss. Well, is that because I didn't have enough? I too many cashews when I was little, or I ate too many, or it's just my heredity? I don't know. But I know that from when I got hearing aids a few years ago, my hearing has not changed. I've gone back a few times for testing and get newer, better hearing aids. I wear glasses. I'm not wearing them at the moment, My vision has not significantly changed in the last few years. Is that because I'm just lucky or because I think I'm making good lifestyle health promoting choices every day? I tend to think it's the latter, but it's no guarantee of anything. And I don't look at anybody else who's been, if somebody's been a vegan for all their lives and all of a sudden they're diagnosed with breast cancer, that's not a crime. That's just life. They've done the best they can with what they

That's how I look.

Glen Merzer: Your career has been as an attorney and a magistrate. Were you ever involved in cases involving veganism? There have been cases of parents…

Mark Huberman: In my career, for the first 10 years of my life, I was a general practicing lawyer who did anything that came along. next 10 years, I was a part -time referee magistrate of our juvenile court, but still had a private practice. In the last 20 years, I was a full chief magistrate of a divorce court, of the family court in our area where I didn't have any private practice. But when I did have a private practice, I often represented, I did two things that really were in this, three things that were in our space. One is that I was the attorney for a local animal welfare organization, our Humane Society and that, because I believe in combating mistreatment of animals, it's kind of within my values. The second thing is that I believed in freedom of choice in healthcare. And so a big issue in the vegan health movement have long been the issue of compulsory vaccinations for children going to school and immunizations going to school. So for years, I helped represented people exercising their freedom of choice in health care to avoid immunizations if they wanted to do that. that was, you know, more challenging. Every state laws were a little bit different. Some were really difficult. Some were not. But I spent my life doing that. So I've always kind of and then I've also as an lawyer represented a number of doctors that have engaged in water fasting, which is always an interesting thing kind of on the fringe of conventional medical care. And when somebody, when a medical board or something challenges them, you know, I'll go to bat for them. And then there've been cases, I've been involved in some cases where people raising their child as vegans, you don't hear much of this today, but in the seventies, people raising their child as vegans could be brought to court for, you know, charged with neglect of their children. I've given them meat and dairy and all those sort of things. I had a good, a significant portion of my practice was helping people defend their freedom of choice and how they raise their children. 

Glen Merzer: So in those cases of parents raising their children as vegans, was that in Ohio? 

Mark Huberman: They were all over. I mean, I did more consulting than I did. 

Glen Merzer: were these cases in which the parents were raising their children on a healthy vegan diet and 

Mark Huberman: that's always the challenge. In many cases, they were not, which made the representation even more difficult because again, as you know, Glen, being in this space for a while that potato chips are vegan or water is vegan, cigarettes are vegan if you want to think about it. just so it doesn't mean that you're healthy. And so many people live on what I call a health food, junk food, vegan diet. And so can be problematic. But again, fortunately, you don't, we don't have much of that kind of stuff anymore. Veganism has become much more respectable, you know, ever since I think as I look back on Forks Over Knives and when that came out in 2010 or 2011, there's a respect as a lifestyle choice, very much like being gay or being lesbian. You know, we've evolved to a great degree, at a lot of us have, I hope. So I haven't come across a lot of those cases, nor has Joel Fuhrman or other people like that that have been called in as experts in those kinds of cases when the climate and the perception of it was much different in the 70s than it is today. But that was part of my background.

Glen Merzer: And how about representing doctors who supervised water fasts? Was that difficult to do? Were they called quacks? 

Mark Huberman: It was. And one of the things that in 1978, one of the things that I helped create was something called the International Association of Hygienic Physicians. And it was where Dr. Alan Goldhamer and Frank Sebastino and Alec Burton and other people engaged in water fasting came together to, at my recommendation, to establish standards of practice and ethical standards so that if they, and establish standards of practice for fasting supervision so that if they were challenged by their medical board or the chiropractic board or were sued civilly, they would have some standards and reasonable standards of care to fall back on. And it was tested a few times and it was successful. It's still, you know, people can die in a hospital every day, but one person has a bad result at Dr. Goldhavish True Heart Health Center or somewhere like that. It's like a catastrophe. But fortunately, again, they operate under standards and with reasonable procedures in that that I helped them develop. And so we don't see that anymore, much more so before there were such standards and guidelines in place. But there's an organization that we helped create to help provide legal defense and and standards for that kind of care. 

Glen Merzer: All right. Now, every few months, I love getting my health science magazine. Tell us about the history of the health science magazine and your role as editor.

Mark Huberman:  I'm pretty proud. It's kind of like my personal baby. I actually created it in 1978. In 1977, I became the youngest president of what was then the American Natural Hygiene Society, later changed the name the National Health Association in the 1980s. And I always thought that people deserved a, for their membership in the organization should have something of value. And so we created this magazine and health science was an interesting term that we came up with because what we were all about in the American Natural Hygiene Society was hygiene was the science of health. And we were all, mean, there are people that are in it for ethical reasons. There are people in it for religious reasons, but the American Natural Hygiene Society, now the National Health Association has been about promoting this diet lifestyle for health reasons. It happens to have all these other benefits for the environment and for the critters and everybody else, but health science and the science of health is what we were all about. So the name work, it was a good name. And then that became our URL for our website. And it's now our health science newsletter and health science podcast. So it's kind of our brand. But the thing that I am proud to start with the magazine is that it is 40 pages long. It has no advertising in I think you would agree Glen, it's as high quality of publication as you'll find on the marketplace. 

Glen Merzer: I agree. 

Mark Huberman: And maybe the most rewarding thing that people tell me and that write to us all the time is that it's the one magazine they read cover to cover. We have a nice mix of a feature interview with some of the stars of our movement like Michael Klaper and Michael Greger and Dean Ornish and the late John McDougall. And you name the person, I've had the privilege of interviewing them. And they're pretty in depth and you learn not just what they think about, you know, they think about, about healthy proteins or nuts or no nuts, but who they are, what their road was, what their, you know, what their interest in life was. And I think of a nice, people tell me I have a nice gift of interviewing people. And so I mean, you as a writer, we relate to that. It's a style to engage people. So we do that with the feature interview, but then there's also a couple of feature articles. There's a recipe section. But the recipes are all the SOS free chefs of which there are an abundance. Kathy Fisher, Chef AJ, Tami Kramer, Dylan Holmes, Brittany Giroudi. These are the people we feature. And most health magazines, I think you would agree Glen, that if you go into a health food store or Whole Foods, most of them are in this space are recipe books. There may be a couple of articles, but it's mostly recipes and featuring products. And our magazine has recipes, but it's not a recipe magazine. So there'll be six or seven in each one. And then we have testimonials and member spotlights and features on travel and things like that. But as I say, I think it's a nice mix. And we've been publishing it now. Well, I've been the editor. I was the founder, but I've been the editor in chief since 2014. And I've published, I'm looking at my wall with 30, the covers of 30 different, 30 some magazines that I've personally published. And it's a very rewarding thing to do and to have no advertising in it is very unique in this space. We don't sell anything but help education. And, you know, and one of the things we've made is that once you go down that road of saying, well, what's an acceptable product, what's an unacceptable product? So we just, we're not beholden, we're about truth education. so again, I'm very proud of the magazine. As you know, Glen, if you live in the United States, it's only $35 a year. And if you live outside the United States, it's only $55 a year. That price probably hasn't changed in 30 years. And it's an actual magazine that gets sent to your mailbox. And when you become a member of the NHA for that 35 bucks, you not only get the magazine comes to you quarterly, but you can log in on our website and gain access to all 46 years. back issues of the magazine for nothing. That's a lot of content and a lot of recipes and a lot of interviews, a lot of feature articles and timeless teachings and all that. So it's again, it's something of which I'm pretty proud. 

Glen Merzer: And you also have an annual conference, right? 

Mark Huberman: We do. So I would say the two signature things that have been part of the NHA for the last, you know, almost 50 years have been our annual conference. We've actually been doing that since 1949 in an unbroken chain. 

Glen Merzer: Wow. 

Mark Huberman: Since then and they are a who's who of people in this whole food plant -based health movement. We've been selling out at over 350 people for the last three years. Our 2024 conference just concluded in Cleveland where we had Neil Barnard and Alan Goldhamer and Caldwell Esselstyn the year before we had T. Colin Campbell. And every year we have, know, Joel Furman, Alan Goldhamer, Frank Savatino. It's a great group of people, but it's more than kind of lectures. All our meals are whole food, plant -based, SOS free, and they're all buffets, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And nobody does buffets like the NHA does buffets. You eat to your heart's content and you don't have to worry about sneaking out to Whole Foods or finding a restaurant. It's all there for you. And we also, it's a whole experience, a weekend experience. We take people to the nearby Cuyahoga Valley National Park for free guided hikes and tour of the Vitamix National Headquarters if people want to do it. We have yoga, we a night of music. It's a whole weekend immersion. And what's really neat about it, I think, Glen, is that I often like to say that if you live in this space, if you've been following this lifestyle, you don't get invited out to dinner a lot, nor do you invite a lot of people over for dinner. But when you come to a conference like ours, it's really something really energizing to be around 350, 360 like -minded people celebrating this lifestyle, sharing their meals together, sharing their stories together. It's an empowerment. It's a community that you become a part of. And I think the magazine coming out quarterly supports that community too, in between our conferences. And now we've also added, you have your podcast, we have the health science podcast hosted by Dr. Frank Savatino, one of our legendary guys and our director of health education. So, and that's offered for free. We have the health science newsletter that comes out free to people. So, We offer a lot of support to people in this community. And I think that's probably maybe our greatest contribution to this space, to the Whole Food Plant -Based space. And we're 501c3. We've been that way forever. So donations to us are tax deductible and helps us kind of do what we do. And the latest thing I guess I just wanted to mention is that plant -based travel is something that is extraordinary. Now there's vegan travel. There's vegetarian travel, there's holistic holiday at sea. There's a number of things like that that have been out there. But what we've done uniquely in the NHA for the last three years is that we've gone to these, we've partnered with Windstar Cruise Lines. It's a small, they have only a couple of small ships of two, 300 people at most on their biggest ship. And we go to amazing destinations and we have worked with their chefs for years. And when you go on a Windstar ship with one of the NHA groups, All your meals are just like our conference, they're whole food, plant -based, SOS free. And it's quite an experience. I don't know if you've traveled a lot abroad, Glen, but if you're in this lifestyle, it can be a real challenge. Not just Mark Huberman in 1982 trying to find an orange or an apple in the Isle of Capri, but when you're translating into a different language, trying to be oil -free, trying to be trying to be sugar -free, whatever it is. we take care of that. So you can travel to magnificent destinations. We just came back from the Greek islands in October and Costa Rica and the Panama Canal in January and Tuscany in May. And we're going to Iceland this August. And in February 2025, we have 300 people, we have the entire ship going to Tahiti. Dr. Furman and number of other doctors are joining us, but these aren't These are just fun and travel and great destinations. And that can all be found at our website at healthscience.org, Plant Based Travel. And you'll see the amazing destinations that we go to. I never thought I would see the day that I could do that. you go on, 

Glen Merzer: It seems like several of these trips a year?

Mark Huberman:  We do. We do. you know, it's not for everybody. Not everybody can afford to do these things, but there are lot of people that can. And for those that can, this is like a dream come true. When you have the time and you have the funds, it's a great way to, just another dimension, to be able to enjoy the empowerment of this lifestyle, but to also be able to go, we're going there. We've just added South Africa, Antarctica. We did the Galapagos Islands a couple of years ago. We have Ireland. have Scotland, have... It's really... You name the kind of interesting destination we're going there, and to be able to do it without even to worry about how much food you got to pack or what restaurant you got to translate a language into. It's really just... I never would have thought I'd seen it in my lifetime, but we really do it well. And if you haven't traveled with the NHA, you haven't traveled plant -based. 

Glen Merzer: Who organizes all travel arrangements?

Mark Huberman: That's where we're really blessed. Lisa McCarl of McCarl Travel is a life member of the NHA, is part of this space. Her husband have both been to true north. They live this lifestyle. They approached my wife, Wanda, in 2019 about seeing if there would be an interest in doing this and kind of like that old thing from, know, if you build it, they will come. We tried one going from Frankfurt. We did one from a river cruise from Frankfurt, Germany to Amsterdam in 2019. It was a great success. had 70 people, think, went. And then COVID hit. That interrupted things for a while. But then we went to Alaska and the Galapagos. And so Lisa is a travel agent extraordinaire. My wife has become, she does, she works with the chefs and makes all that happen, but she's almost become a travel agent herself, you having done it so many times now, dealing with it. So we are, the people that travel with the NHA are really blessed between Wanda and Lisa McCarl to take care of all the details that you could imagine from your flights to your schedule to your transfers to your insurance to you name it. And they're experts at making it happen and making it really easy for you.

Glen Merzer:  Now, when you have your annual conferences and you have about 350 people attend,What percentage would you guess are people who are new to the diet and really want to learn about it versus people who are just trying to up their game?

Mark Huberman:  I can't tell you that. can tell you that about 50 % of the people come every year. 50 % of the people that come are new every year. Just because, know, mean, funds are limited for some people, but we get new people every year. Where exactly they are on their path or on their journey, I don't know. And we don't judge. You know, we've also taken the approach that at our meals, you know, we don't serve coffee, we don't serve alcohol, we don't serve, you know, we set a gold standard of your meals are gonna be SOS free. We know everybody doesn't keep SOS free, but we're here to say, here's what's possible, here's the gold standard, here's what you wanna achieve. And that's what we demonstrate you can have it. If you wanna run out and if you wanna go to the hotel restaurant and, you have a pizza or go next door and do that. We're not the police. You can do anything you want. But we find that we really do it well. The chefs are really pretty gifted. know, plant -based cooking, SOS -free plant -based cooking has come a long way. You know from your associations with Chef AJ and these people, it's a different world. No matter what taste, if you enjoy Mexican or Hispanic or whatever it is you want, you can find that flavor and that taste palette whole food plant -based, SOS free. I can't tell you how many people are new. I know for a fact that people will be bringing their spouse or their boyfriend or something to kind of introduce it to them every year. There's some of those, but it's a good time to have biofeedback. get it's phenomenal. Right now you can register for our 2025 conference is set for June 27th to the 29th at the Holiday Inn, Cleveland South, we're going back to the same hotel because they do it so well, it's such a great location, close to the Cleveland Airport. You can register on our website at the early bird rate. And of that 360, 370 people that we can hold, we already have 172 people who are already pre -registered for next year. So don't wait too long. If you want to save 100 bucks, can register. 

Glen Merzer: And tell us what the website is? 

Healthscience .org.

Glen Merzer: HealthScience .org. 

Mark Huberman: You know, there's one other thing, Glen, I'd like to offer your viewers and that your listeners that, you know, I believe that people should be able to look before they leap. And if they want to see what Health Science magazine is all about, what the NHA is all about, if they email me at mhuberman at healthscience .org, I'll send them an electronic copy of the latest issue of magazine that you just held up. They can keep it for free if they like it and they want to join. I'll send them a print copy even though it came out like a month ago and they'll get a jump on their membership. But, you know, we think the magazine sells itself. But again, for somebody who doesn't know what we're about, who's never heard of us, check us out. You can look before you leap. And I'll be glad to send you a free electronic copy just by emailing me. 

Glen Merzer: And they could find information about your travel at that website? 

Mark Huberman: All on our website at healthscience .org. There's a tab right at the top that says Plant -Based Travel.

Glen Merzer: Okay. 

Mark Huberman: And all the upcoming destinations we have and it's in, if you sign up again at at Lscience .org, you can sign up for a free e -newsletter. Every newsletter comes out has an update about travel because the magazine comes out quarterly, but the website is updated and the newsletter is updated even, you know, even more quickly than that. The newsletter comes out every two weeks, first and 15th of the month, or 15th and 30th. 

Glen Merzer: Now, I came across somewhere, I think it was in the the interview that was done of you by Vegan Linked, that you had your first birthday cake at age 65?

Mark Huberman:  I did. It was a Kathy Fisher carrot cake. She has this wonderful... If anybody out there, there's a million plant -based cookbooks out there and they're great. But my personal favorite remains Kathy Fisher's straight up And in her book, Straight Up Food, she has a carrot muffin that you can expand and make into a cake and with a pineapple icing, pineapple cashew icing and all that. And that's true. To this day, Mike, when I I grew up, I have pictures of when I was when I was like seven years old on my first birthday. My birthday cake was a cantaloupe, a cantaloupe cut in half, candles around the outside and some blueberries and a scoop of cashew butter. That was my birthday cake for, you know, for years and years. But when I was 60, 60, 65, I don't remember which I came to our temple and our synagogue and Wanda had a surprise party for me and made this big sheet cake and it was great. And I thought, wow, I don't know that I've been a deprived child, but it certainly was a whole new world opened up. 

Glen Merzer: What was it sweetened with? 

Mark Huberman: Cashews and dates. 

Glen Merzer: Cashews and dates.

Mark Huberman: Yeah, that's how you can make a really good icing and all that. 

Glen Merzer: Well, Mark, it's been a pleasure hearing your story and congratulations on having your first piece of cake. Who knows what's in store for you in the future. 

Mark Huberman: I can tell you there's not too much in store. I'm still, as I mentioned earlier, Glen, I do kind of approach this philosophically. I'm a pretty simple guy. I still enjoy my big salad every day. I still enjoy my overnight oatmeal. And that's what sustains me very well. And I love my avocados and I love my Japanese yams. pretty simple guy to this day. Do I enjoy some of the wonderful treats that Chef AJ makes? I sure do. But they're all SOS free and they're whole plant foods. And so they just add a little spice to my life. That's all I can say. 

Glen Merzer: Well, maybe for your hundredth birthday, a cupcake. Who knows? 

Mark Huberman: Well, maybe I'll take you to dinner. I plan on being there.

Glen Merzer:  I'll take you up on. All right, Mark, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. People can go to healthscience .org and learn more and you could take Mark up on his offer for a free electronic magazine. 

Mark Huberman: And I'll say also, Glen, that one of the things that's unique about the NHA is if you call the NHA at 330 -953 -1002, you will reach me. I can't say that I'm going to be at the phone every day, I'm a pretty busy guy, but Juan and I, it's a very personal place we do call you back or Laura, our administrative assistant. You reach a human being in the NHA and we try to keep it personal that way. We really do feel that everybody that joins the NHA or attends our conference travels with us. They're part of the community. They're part of our life. And that's maybe the most rewarding part of all.

Glen Merzer: All right. That's an open invitation to join this healthy community. Mark, we'll see you soon. 

Mark Huberman: You bet. Thank you, Glen.