On the latest episode of The Glen Merzer Show, Renee King-Sonnen shared her remarkable journey from cattle rancher to the founder of Rowdy Girl Sanctuary in Welder, Texas. Her transition is a testament to the profound impact a single connection can have.
In 2009, Renee, a city dweller from Houston, reluctantly moved to her husband Tommy’s cattle ranch. Initially indifferent to the cows, her perspective changed dramatically when she began caring for two orphaned calves. One of these calves was Rowdy Girl, who would become the catalyst for Renee’s transformation.
Renee formed a deep bond with Rowdy Girl, nurturing her like a child. This connection opened Renee’s eyes to the individuality and emotions of the cows on the ranch. She began to see each cow as a unique being, not just livestock.
The turning point came when Renee witnessed the heartbreaking scene of mother cows mourning their calves being taken to market. This emotional trauma led Renee to a profound spiritual awakening. In October 2014, she decided to go vegan, driven by the pain of knowing what awaited the animals she had come to love.
Determined to save her beloved cows, Renee negotiated with Tommy to buy them. Despite initial resistance, her commitment was unwavering. Rowdy Girl and her calves, including Lucky, were spared from the slaughterhouse. Renee’s journey from rancher to sanctuary founder underscores the power of compassion and the impact of forming deep connections with animals.
Through her sanctuary, Renee now provides a safe haven for cows like Rowdy Girl, reflecting her profound transformation and commitment to animal welfare.
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DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here: Renee King-Sonnen Sings for the Cows
Here's the transcript:
Glen Merzer: Welcome to the Glen Merzer Show. You can find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You could find us on YouTube. And please remember to subscribe. You could find us at RealMenEatPlants .com. My guest today is Renee King -Sonnen, who is the founder of the Rowdy Girl Sanctuary in Welder, Texas. Her program is called the Rancher Advocacy Program. She's going to tell us about that. Renee, welcome to the show.
Renee King-Sonnen: Welcome. Welcome. I'm so I'm so nice. It's so nice to see you here and great to finally connect.
Glen Merzer: All right. What are you munching on? I hope it's vegan.
Renee King-Sonnen: You have to ask me. Blueberries.
Glen Merzer: Blueberries. Those look like big blueberries.
Renee King-Sonnen: They are.
Glen Merzer: Okay, now, wow. So you started out as a cattle rancher, right? So tell us about that transition from being a cattle rancher to the owner of a farm sanctuary.
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, we're the founder of Rowdy Girl. You know, we're a nonprofit, so there's no owners in this world.
Glen Merzer: Okay, founder. I stand corrected.
Renee King-Sonnen: It's okay. I just want to make sure everybody understands we don't own Yeah, we're, are. How did we become a, how did I go from a cattle rancher to a vegan farm?
Glen Merzer: Yes.
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, it's a, it's a story that started when I first moved onto the cattle ranch in 2009. My husband and I had reconnected. We were married years before and we reconnected and we're getting married again. And so he had acquired the ranch in about at that time it was Angleton, Texas. That's where Rowdy Girl originated. so reluctantly, I moved to the ranch. I was selling real estate at the time and doing quite well for myself. Um, I was also producing music and, you know, living the life that I love, you know, in the city. I'm, you know,
Glen Merzer: How long was this ago, Renee,
Renee King-Sonnen: like I said, 2009,
Glen Merzer: 2009.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. And I'm a city girl that was born raised in Houston, Texas. I was, I was a rhinestone cowgirl, you know, I had collection of leather boots and all things, all the leather clothes. And, but I never had lived on a ranch. So Tommy wanted me to move to the ranch. I wanted him to live in the city and it was just like Greenacres. If you ever saw Greenacres, you know, where there was the big tug of war between going to the city and stay and get going to the country. That was me and Tommy. And I relented very begrudgingly. Then I went to the country. That started me on my journey going vegan and I didn't know I didn't know that that was the moment I started transitioning. Nobody told me that was going to happen to me. I didn't have any vegan friends except the cows. So I want to be real clear that I'm not one of those that went vegan because somebody was, you know, talking to me at a rally or a festival or at a restaurant with a bullhorn. mean, none of that. It was a cow named Rowdy Girl that started changing my heart and my
Glen Merzer: So you had on the ranch a cow named Rowdy girl.
Renee King-Sonnen: No, well, it didn't start out that way.
Glen Merzer: OK.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. I mean, it was it didn't start out that way. What started out was me living on a cattle ranch that I didn't want to be on. Right. Tommy had a bunch of cows. Yeah. I didn't even care about the cows back then. I saw cows and I didn't care about the cows. That was his job, not mine. So you were eating meat.
Glen Merzer: Not caring about the cows.
Renee King-Sonnen: None of that. But I had been actually plant -based before, but not for animals. I had gone whole food plant -based raw, back a few years prior because I was very much into yoga and trying to do better with my health. But that was a long time before and it didn't stick. Like a lot of times people don't, but I never even thought about connecting it to animals at that time. And Anyway, whenever I moved on to the cattle ranch, Tommy wanted me more involved in taking care of all the cows. So he told me about a calf that needed a mama. It was two of them actually. And because I could never have any kids of my own, I thought, wow, I'll go look at these baby calves. Cause I, you know, I loved animals, you know, I just never thought about loving cows. You know, we're We're not designed to love cows. We're designed to love dogs and cats, we're not strategically designed by the world anyway to love cows. So anyway, I went and saw these baby calves and fell in love with them, wanted to buy them. I bought them for $300 a piece, brought them home. And that was the beginning of the clock ticking for me to go vegan. It took five years, almost five years of me for me to finally go vegan. But that was the start of my...
Glen Merzer: was one of those cows that you bought, Rowdy Girl?
Renee King-Sonnen: That one of them was Rowdy Girl.
Glen Merzer: And what was the other one?
Renee King-Sonnen: Her name was Bodo.
Glen Merzer: Bobo. But it was Rowdy Girl rather than Bodo?
Renee King-Sonnen: Bobo.
Glen Merzer: Bobo. It was Rowdy Girl that convinced you to go vegan. What did Rowdy Girl say to you?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, after I got the two calves, Bobo died like within the next week. She never got her colostrum. She didn't get her colostrum. I mean, these were two really baby, thin, little baby calves that didn't have a mama. And I didn't even question it at the time why they didn't have a mama. I mean, I'm a cattle rancher's wife. mean, I just knew they didn't have a mama. I didn't know why. And so the baby Bobo passed away. She never got her colostrum. But rowdy girl You know, she was the reason I got up in the morning and the reason I wanted to go out there in the evening. And prior to Rowdy Girl, I could care less about any of those cows.
Glen Merzer: Now, what was it about Rowdy Girl that made her such a special cow? You didn't care about the other cows. was a baby. But Rowdy Girl you fell in love with. What were her characteristics?
Renee King-Sonnen: She was a baby and she needed a mama. I was a woman that couldn't have kids that needed a baby. I started nurturing Rowdy Girl like she was my child. I started taking care of Rowdy Girl because she needed me and I needed her. And it was, but I wasn't vegan. It just became this symbiotic relationship, you know, and when I would feed her, I would also, it was like she was communicating to me the language of the and I would feed her and she would feed me, like the language of the cows.
Glen Merzer: How did she do that?
Renee King-Sonnen: How does anybody do anything psychically or intuitively or what? All I know is I began to see things, hear things, witness things I'd never seen before, and it was always there.
Glen Merzer: What kind of things did you witness?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, like I began, it was all black cows. They were all black. you know, normally you wouldn't be able to even tell them apart. But I started being able to tell them all apart. I started being able to see all their features. I began to hear their moves and I could distinguish who was who. And I started naming them and it was like, it was like they were telling me their names. It wasn't like, I think I'm gonna name you da da da. It was just like, would, no, you're so and so, And I started getting to know the cows. They started getting to know me and it just started happening.
Glen Merzer: What was Tommy thinking as you were getting to know all these cows? For him, they were a business, I assume.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, he wasn't he wasn't happy about it. He wasn't happy about your familiarity with the cows. He told me to quit naming the cows. He said, Renee, got to quit naming them cows. can't, you know, we can't sell animals that we name, you know, we did, you know, cattle ranchers do name cows, but typically they're called pasture ornaments and They put them out in the pasture and they call them ornaments. you know, so those cows can have a name because they're an ornament, but, know, any cows you send to market, you're not supposed to name them. They're just supposed to be a number.
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: And, of course that in the way that nature designed them, not nature didn't design them to be a number. Man did. And the cattle ranching industry, you know, has a really, really great way of keeping up with all of them through all these tags. Anyway, I started naming them and Tommy started like getting mad at me because I was so happy I would, you know, come in and I would talk about rowdy girls friends and, you know, and family, you know, was calling, you know, their kids. I was using words like, you know, you don't use those words, you don't say the cows have kids, they have calves. You don't say have, you don't say cows have children, you know, their family, you don't do that, you know, and I was doing all the things you're not supposed to do. And I didn't know. just was like, they're a family, you know? so anyway, when he started loading them up, take them to the market, the babies, because we always sent the babies to market every six months.
Glen Merzer: you sent the babies to market?
Renee King-Sonnen: The six -month -olds, yeah.
Glen Merzer: Well, I thought they had to be more fully grown.
Renee King-Sonnen: No, six months, six months to seven months. That's when you sell them.
Glen Merzer: How many pounds do they weigh at six months?
Renee King-Sonnen: Oh, probably 800 pounds, maybe 700 800 pounds. But what they do then is they they sell them at auction. This is this is what you mostly do. I mean, sometimes you'll sell your older cows or cows that are your problems or whatever. But by and large, you sell it's called a cow cap operation. And so the calves go to the cell barn so cattle ranchers can buy the calves to put them in a feedlot to fatten them up for the next two or three months.
Glen Merzer: So then they go from 800 pounds to 1300 pounds before they get slaughtered.
Renee King-Sonnen: Exactly. But they go to a feedlot, you know, a CAFO. And so that's the kind of business we were in. So the first time he did that, that was to my knowledge that I really cared about it. I about had a fit because I saw firsthand with my own eyes the mamas crying for their babies. The babies crying to get out of the trailer. I saw the babies, you know, scrambling, know, tears bursting from their eyes. I mean, not just trickling. I mean, just all of a sudden it was just like full on and the mamas would chase the trailer up that highway wanting their babies just wailing with everything in them. And then they would do that for several days after they were gone. And after the babies left, usually it was about six or seven of them at a time. You know, all those mamas were just desperately, you know, in pain. They were in grief. it did something to me. It got through to me. And I would go out there with them by myself And I would get on my knees and I would beg for mercy and I would cry and I would tell him I'm so sorry. And I don't know what was I was going vegan and I didn't know it. You know, I was having a spiritual awakening on a cattle ranch and didn't know it was happening. So it was. Yeah, I cry thinking about it.
Glen Merzer: And so the mamas would stay behind at your ranch in order to get impregnated again and bring another calf into the world. that would be raised to 600, 800 pounds and then sent off to be finished.
Renee King-Sonnen: Over and over again.
Glen Merzer: Over and over again. And so what happened to Rowdy Girl?
Renee King-Sonnen: She didn't get sold. She was my cow. She was your cow.
Glen Merzer: So what happened when she reached 600, 800 pounds?
Renee King-Sonnen: Nothing happened. She was my cow.
Glen Merzer: She just stayed on the ranch. And that was where Did Tommy want to send her off? Well, you know, I'm trying to get Tommy in trouble here. I'm just curious.
Renee King-Sonnen: He never said, Renee, it's time to send Rowdy Girl off. But because I headed it off at the pass before he ever got a chance to ever say anything about taking Rowdy Girl, I let him know right quick she would never go. And none of her babies would go and all the things so Rowdy Girl was off limits
Glen Merzer: Okay, and how many babies did Rowdy Girl have?
Renee King-Sonnen: She had Houdini. She had Stella. She had Magic. And then she had Lucky. Lucky was actually the only boy she had. So she had Lucky.
Glen Merzer: What happened to Lucky? Did he stay on the farm?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, but he almost didn't. That's why his name is Lucky.
Glen Merzer: Yeah. So often the bulls get separated, right? Or turned into steer.
Renee King-Sonnen: Uh -huh.
Glen Merzer: But Lucky's, Lucky stayed a bull.
Renee King-Sonnen: No, Lucky's a steer.
Glen Merzer: Oh, Lucky's a steer. We don't have any
Renee King-Sonnen: No, he didn't get that lucky. He got lucky. He didn't get, he didn't get to sent to a sale barn.
Glen Merzer: Okay.
Renee King-Sonnen: He was, he, he jumped off the trailer. Uh -huh. Back in February of 2014. Lucky was on the trailer.
Glen Merzer: On the trailer to go to the finishing.
Renee King-Sonnen: And he jumped off and hurt his leg.
Glen Merzer: How did... Wait a minute. He jumped off the trailer before you had turned it into a sanctuary? Did he have any idea that you were going to turn it into a sanctuary? Who, Lucky?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah.
Glen Merzer: Well, I think Rowdy Girl, Lucky, and all the cows knew something I didn't know.
Renee King-Sonnen: -huh.
Glen Merzer: So do you think they were talking about the possibility that Mama here is going to turn this into a sanctuary and we're safe?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, you know, You know, I have a lot of...I spend a lot of time in meditation and I spend a lot of time with these animals. And they don't speak our language, but they speak and they communicate. And just like right now there's music happening all the way across the world, just like we're able to communicate right here. There's always communication going on that you can't see or If you can tune into it, you get it. And that's what started to happen between me and Rowdy Girl in the herd. was a connection being made. It started being made when I started feeding Rowdy Girl. Honestly, I think it was made, I think Rowdy Girl. I think she knew. think she, honestly, I think she might've chose me.
Glen Merzer: Now, when you would tell these things to your husband, Tommy, did he believe you?
Renee King-Sonnen: He was like, he was the kind of person who was scared not, he would like look at me like this, but so many of the things I would say would come to pass. And so even though he didn't believe me, he started questioning whether or not he should not believe me because so many things that I intuit and say would come to pass. so, you know.
Glen Merzer:What kind of things?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, like, well, like, for instance, whenever I bought all his cows from him, you know, he never once thought I would buy all those cows from him.
Glen Merzer: You bought the cows from your own husband?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. And he never ever... What were those negotiations
Glen Merzer: Well and So it would have been around December of 2014.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. I went vegan October of 2014 and the negotiation started when I went vegan because I couldn't dare. I couldn't stand the thought of those cows going to sell barn anymore. Now, once I turned vegan, It was on for me. mean, and so the negotiations kind of started then, but I had to do everything on the slide. He couldn't know about what I was doing.
Glen Merzer: So what were you doing? Wait a minute. What were you doing?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, I met this woman named Jeannie. She lives in Oregon, her and her husband, Mario. And the night I went vegan Halloween. I started frantically looking up on Facebook, you know, vegans, because I didn't know any vegans, just rowdy girl. That was the only vegan I knew. And so I'm looking for vegans because I'd gone vegan that day. And I knew I'd become an ethical vegan because I'd been doing all this research on stuff on my own. And I was looking for vegan friends and I found Jeannie at like two in the morning. It was two in the morning on my time. was like midnight over there. And it was some vegan registry on Facebook where I found her. anyway, she and I started messaging each other. And next thing you know, I'm talking to her on the phone. Well, I'm blubbering on the phone. I'm crying. I was a mess. was a frantic, psychologically deranged mess.
Glen Merzer: Well, why were you such a mess? What was wrong?
Renee King-Sonnen: I'd gone vegan that day.
Glen Merzer: Why did that upset you?
Renee King-Sonnen: Because I didn't know we were the only cattle ranch in the world that that had happened to, you know, like I didn't know that that that didn't, you know, I don't know. It's just I was so upset because my husband was mad. My mother -in -law, I had I had upset everybody.
Glen Merzer: you had announced it to the family and they weren't pleased.
Renee King-Sonnen: Well,I went over there because we were having a Halloween party for all the kids on Halloween day. You know, like several days that led up to me going vegan, I was watching slaughterhouse videos. So I was watching all these slaughterhouse videos because I was having a real tough time with Tommy sending all those animals to the cell barn over and over. Every six months, it would just breakme and he would try to hide it from me and yada yada. And so next thing you know, I'm looking up online what happens to all these cows when they go to cell barns. What happens when they go to the cell barn? And then what happens to them next? I started watching all the videos that people don't want to watch.
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: All of them. I wouldn't stop. And I would make my husband watch. I would say, look at this. You know, I was just like, look at what they do. This is what we do. All those cows out there. This is where they're going and he would just like put his ears like this and he would tell me I was crazy and I was like, you know, and I was going nuts.
Glen Merzer: Yeah,
Renee King-Sonnen: you know, and so on this particular Halloween day, I stumbled across after watching a bunch of Slaughterhouse videos that Tommy would always say, that's Peter propaganda. You can't believe any of that stuff. And I was like, you know, anyway, that's what he called it. And and then I stumbled on Melanie Joy. And it was this real laid back dissertation on carnism. You know, I don't know if you've heard the story about the beef stew. Yeah. So she was telling that story.
Glen Merzer: I'm sorry, which story?
Renee King-Sonnen: About about the beef stew, you know, when people are there, all the family sitting around the table and they're they're eating, you know, beef stew. And somebody says, I love this so much. What's the recipe? And, you know, the lady of the house is, I'm glad you asked. You start off with a pound of very young golden retriever. Well, as soon as she said that, I mean, I've been watching all these slaughterhouse videos for a couple of months and all of a sudden it was baby puppies in a bowl. And I'm all of sudden it was like I could be eating anybody's body chopped up in a bowl and not even know it. It could be a puppy. It could be a person. It could be my grandma. It could be anybody. I would not know. I started to see it. I saw that. And all of a sudden she said, just kidding. It's really a cow. But nobody at the table could resume eating. And I was just like dumbfounded. About that time, Tommy says, Renee, You got to get dressed. We got to go to my mother's house. You know, the party starts, yada, yada, yada. She's expecting us for dinner, yada, yada, yada. So, you know, you need to get your act together, you know, get some makeup on because I've been crying, all that. And so I go put on my makeup, try to look presentable, try to be normal. You know, I didn't know that I was going vegan that day. Nobody told me, you know, I was going vegan that day. I was not planning on it. And I didn't know I was living in an oppressed wife on a cattle ranch. I was actually in oppression. I didn't know that. So I go to my mother -in -law's and all the kids in the costume, all the family, all the things, and my mother -in -law, bless her heart, God rest her soul, her name is Epi, was Epi. She comes out with a big old pot of beef stew and it was as if I was in the script. You could have like put me right in the middle of it I was just like, you know, I mean she says, Would you like, you know, she was just doing this number and I was like, no, no, I can't eat that, you know, and all the kids and everything and she says, well, why not? Renee? She's a very genteel, you know, German stop type person. Why not, Renee? I said, because it's got floating dead hacked up animal bodies in it and I can't eat it. And she was like, what? And everybody in the room got quiet and they looked at me and they said, And everybody was mouth was just like. And I said, it's got floating dead hacked up animal bodies in it. I can't eat it. I'm done. I'm done. And she said, well, you can pick it out. I was like, Nope, there ain't no more picking it out for me. I went down that big and rabbit hole. Boom. And Tommy was mortified. Everybody in the family was mortified. And, you know, I went home, throwing out all the meat, telling Tommy he would not have any meat products in our. I mean, I went from not being a vegan to being the vegan that nobody wants around them. Nobody wanted me around them because it was as if everything on my insides had suddenly come out here and it was there and I could do nothing about it. I could not help it. The sight, sound, smell of animals or the products of animals made me cry. It made me sick. And that's what happened, you know, and I went vegan that day. And yeah, it was it was pretty tragic for my husband and us.
Glen Merzer: Now, as I understand it, your husband is vegan today, how long did it take Tommy to go over to your side? How did that transition
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, I went vegan on October 31st, Halloween. And then on May 2nd, Tommy was vegan, plant -based. And the way it happened was we had that negotiation we were talking about, right? I went vegan in October. Next thing you know, I'm trying to figure out how to buy all the cows because I didn't want Tommy selling them anymore. And he was trying to figure out how to not get another divorce and lose everything. And I found that vegan friend. She is the one that said, Renee, you ought to figure out, you know, make a blog, do something, try to get help. And so I did. That's when Kip Andersen reached out to me. I didn't know who he was.
Glen Merzer: And Kip Andersen is the filmmaker.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, he reached out to me years ago. He's been on our board for, you know, almost 10 years, but he reached out and he was you know, want to know what was going on. Cause he had heard about the vegan journal of a rancher's wife that I'd started and trying to like figure out what to do to save all these cows. I mean, it a ton of cows. was like 29 of them, but I could not. And then some of them were pregnant, but I could not stand the thought of any of them going to sale. They were like my family now and they were not going to go to sale. And I told Tommy, will not take them cows up the road. One more time. You take them cows up the road. I will follow you. I will go to the cell barn. I will go there. I will buy them all back with your credit card. I'll bring them back home. Don't stop. Don't try me. I will become your worst nightmare." And he knew I meant it. And he was like, say out of my business. I said, this is not a business. No more business. are no more. We're not selling any more animals here.
Glen Merzer: You know, that sounded like a moment for for marriage counseling, huh?
Renee King-Sonnen: No, no marriage counselor could have touched it.
Glen Merzer: So, so did he back down and not send the cows off?
Renee King-Sonnen: I would have, you know, I would have stood in front of the trailer. He could have, he would have had run me
Glen Merzer: So he didn't have much choice.
Renee King-Sonnen: He'd had run me over. I told him I would go to the Cattlemen's Association. I would make him the most embarrassed person in Brazoria County if he tried to stop me. And, you know, we were members of the Presbyterian Church. He was an elder and I said, You know, I'll go up there at that church with all those conservative cowboys up there and I'll embarrass you up there. You will not stop me. Wow. I'm in it. And, you know, I didn't know that I was creating such a stir. You know, I just knew that my heart was completely on fire. I literally lived with the cows at that time. During the day, I stayed with the cows all day until till sunset. I'd get up in the morning, take my guitar a lunch, a blanket, and I'd go out with the cows and then I'd come back. And because I couldn't stand being at home, there was deer heads everywhere. You know, we had a house full of deer heads everywhere.
Glen Merzer: That's hard to look at.
Renee King-Sonnen: couldn't stand going vegan. It was like I was living in a morgue. I'd walk through the house, ducking my head. It's like crazy what happened to me.
Glen Merzer: Why do people put deer heads on their walls? What is the joy they get from that?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, they remember the exact moment they were with their nephew or their brother or their daddy. They remember looking through that scope and seeing that animal there. They remember the bond that they made with each other when they shot that deer and killed it dead, strung it up on a tree, bled it out, and took it in to get processed. That is so sacred in our culture, and it's so sickening. That's why they do it. So they can talk about it. So they can look at this head and this head and this head and they go, yeah, I remember that. I was over there. They remember everything about
Glen Merzer: It's foreign to me. I didn't grow up in a hunting family. I've never understood it.
Renee King-Sonnen: That's why it's so hard. know, tradition, culture. I Tommy has family, you know, that they do all that. I mean, Tommy's kind of like ostracized in a way. not totally, not like publicly ostracized or anything, but they don't know how to talk to Tommy anymore because his whole family, you
Glen Merzer: Okay, but there was a transition that took place between Halloween. Was it 2014 that you said?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, Halloween 2014.
Glen Merzer: Halloween 2014, October 31st and May 2015 when Tommy went plant -based. How did you do it?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, I started out just like I told you. was just Katie bar the door, pretty much cock blocking is what he said. But that's what he called it. I didn't call it that. then, you know, I told him, you know, that I was going to buy all the cows. I said, this is what I said. I said, well, after I started the journal, the Vegan Journal of a Cattle Rancher's Wife, that's, know, Jeannie was like in my ear trying to help me. She would send me links to all these documentaries for Tommy to watch. Tommy, to his credit, watched them every one. Tommy watched the documentaries. He wanted to understand what the hell was going on in my brain. He started latching on to T. Colin Campbell's China study. really -
Glen Merzer: Forks over knives?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, forks over knives. His daddy had died from a heart attack at 62 years old. So, he started going down that rabbit hole. And that is what started to change my husband's mind.
Glen Merzer: he began to realize that the career he was in was making people unhealthy.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, you know, I mean, that's one way to look at it. He just. Started seeing that, you know, you know, he he could he could really start seeing how it was bad for your heart and and and so. What happened was I devised a plan with Kip's help and some other people's help to create a fundraiser to buy my husband's cows. And unbeknownst to him, it was very well thought out and calculated. And I went to Tommy. He didn't know I had calculated all this and knew that we had a strategy. I went to Tommy one day because it was a secret. And I said, Tommy. I said, will you let me buy your cows? Just let me buy your cows and start a sanctuary. said, if I can give you all the money you need, you know, cause that was the big sticking point, you know, is he couldn't just, you know, give me the cows. owned, he owned the taxes. He owned tractor equipment, you know, payments, tack, you know, taxes on the land. mean, he couldn't just give me the cows. mean, back then, I mean, he always says now I wish I had just gave them to you, He didn't know what he didn't know, you know, and he said to me, Renee, you know, if you think you can buy my cows, which he was just like, yeah, right. I could probably get forty thousand for my cell barn. I'll give them to you for thirty. And I OK,
Glen Merzer: that's That's a marital discount.
Renee King-Sonnen: That's very nice. I said, OK. I said, will you give it? Will you let me lease the land for a dollar a year? He said, sure, because I already had a plan. And he didn't know it. I said, how about two years? He said, sure, Renee. He was condescending. He was being very, what do you call it? When you just appease somebody. He didn't think I'd do it. And I came back to my friends and we devised the plan. I launched the fundraiser to buy my husband's cows. And in less than four months, I raised the money and bought his cows. So every step of the way, Tommy started becoming more and more open -minded. He talked to Kip Andersen. He talked to other vegans that were trying to help him listen. We had the fundraiser there at Rowdy Girl on May 2nd, and that was the day Tommy went vegan, is on May 2nd, 2015.
Glen Merzer: All right. Yeah. And has he been happy that he went vegan?
Renee King-Sonnen: Oh, he's so happy. He's now ethical vegan. mean, he loves them animals. He went from. He went from plant based to environmental to full on ethical. He isn't ethical 100 % vegan now for the animals.
Glen Merzer: And were there, did you or Tommy have any health changes when you went vegan?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, yeah, I've lost, uh, God, I went from like 150, almost 155, I'll tell you 118. Uh, Tommy is lost like 35 pounds and his cholesterol went really down, his heart's better, all the things.
Glen Merzer: So both of you had health improvements. And when you went vegan initially, you knew you weren't going to be eating cows anymore or chickens or fish, but did you know what to eat?
Renee King-Sonnen: You know, that was the hardest part for my husband. For me, I'm very creative. know, I can get on Google, figure stuff out, order stuff and all. I just started figuring it out. But my husband didn't like the food I was cooking. He didn't, he's more, he likes the meat and potatoes, you know, big time. And so he really started cooking for himself. He started making potatoes and, you know, peppers and onions and you know, making him some potato tacos. And then he figured out, you know, how to make the tofu taste good. And, and so, you know, we figured it out, but, now Tommy, you know, I mean, he, he keeps, you know, impossible and beyond and all that in business because he loves all that. don't, but he does. He loves it. He has that beyond sausage every morning. He makes his burgers and you know, it, but, But it is what it is, right? I you do the best you can. if Beyond and Impossible and all the brands out there are helping people be able to eat what they're used to eating and nobody's killed,
Glen Merzer: So once you established your sanctuary, in effect, by buying the cows and you were no longer a cattle ranch that was selling them off to be slaughtered, when did you decide, I'll turn this into a nonprofit, I'll turn this into a cause, I'll start the rancher advocacy program? How did that transition happen?
Renee King-Sonnen: We became a nonprofit on February 20th, 2015. And the way that happened is we applied for the paperwork very early. A fellow by the name of Drew, who used to work for Farm Sanctuary, got permission to come out to Rowdy Girl to just see everything that was going on. And he got permission to help And so he helped me draft all my nonprofit paperwork early. I knew I was going to have to do something to make money. I knew I couldn't just, I couldn't sell cows anymore. You know, we couldn't do it. So I was going to figure out how to become a sanctuary and create a cause, you know, with what I was doing. So that's what I, that's what I did. And so we applied. I think that, no, they got the paperwork in, you know, in the government on February the 20th. That's when everything got stamped. And we got the mail from them like in May or June of 2015. But it was retro dated back to February 20th, 2015, the day they got it. And so that's when we became a nonprofit, February 20
Glen Merzer: And then did you decide to bring all kinds of animals onto your farm?
Renee King-Sonnen: It just started happening. I didn't, you know, we just started getting calls. mean, I didn't go find animals. They found us. You don't have to go look, you know, as soon as people know you're a sanctuary, they they find you. That's for sure. And so animals started coming to us and. It was like I was always born to do this. It was like I've always been the kind of person that is driven by a mission greater than me. I've always been that way. whenever I used to have my school, Renee King School of Performing Stars, I always loved grooming talent to become the best they could be as a performer. You know, I love teaching, you know, people how to, you know, bring the best out of people. And so when I went vegan, it was like, for the first time, I felt like I was finally doing what I was always supposed to do. And it wasn't, it wasn't so people could become the best performers they could be and singers and all. It was so that animals could be free. And And I was determined to use every every skill, every talent, every nuance of my personality to make that happen in my work. And that's what I've done.
Glen Merzer: How many animals do you have at Rowdy Girls Sanctuary now?
Renee King-Sonnen: 137.
Glen Merzer: 137. And how many are cows?
Renee King-Sonnen: 68.
Glen Merzer: 68. It's about half of them. Almost exactly half of them. You have a bunch of chickens.
Renee King-Sonnen: of chickens, a bunch of goats. We have three sheep. We have three rabbits. We have four pigs. We have a donkey. We have a turkey. We have a goose. We have some ducks.
Glen Merzer: And are they or some of them separated from the others? It's hard to imagine them all getting along.
Renee King-Sonnen: no, you don't just throw them out all there together. They have their own pastures and like chickens have their own coops and
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: And and and areas where you know, go out during the day and we put them up at night.
Glen Merzer: But do the do the mammals hang out together?
Renee King-Sonnen: All the goats and all the cows.
Glen Merzer: Yeah.
Renee King-Sonnen: But they can. We have separate pastures for for the cows and we have a couple of specialized pastures for the older ones, you know, and the goats have their own place. But, you know, like we open the big gate for the goats during the day, they can pretty much go wherever they want because they always come, you know, they don't go far. But so they can mix it up with the cows if they want to. But they really don't. And and then the sheep have a great big five acre pasture that we let them stay on. And they're there with the donkey.
Glen Merzer: So the donkey and the sheep get along. Does the donkey think he's a sheep?
Renee King-Sonnen: No.
Glen Merzer: How could you tell?
Renee King-Sonnen: No, he, she misses her, her best friend, Trixie. Trixie died last year and she really misses Trixie. And I keep hoping and praying that somebody will call me with a donkey for Dixie
Glen Merzer: OK, ladies and gentlemen listening out there, if you have a donkey to send to the rowdy girl sanctuary, and I'm sure many of you do, please get in touch with Renee. Go to what's the website, Renee?
Renee King-Sonnen: Rowdy girl sanctuary dot org
Glen Merzer: rowdy girl sanctuary dot org. Get in touch with Renee. Tell her about your donkey and please folks, if you have a heart. Send Renee your donkey. Okay, I think the problem will be solved very soon.
Renee King-Sonnen: Awesome. Yeah. Because Dixie really needs... Yeah. But you know, I don't go out looking for animals.
Glen Merzer: So I'm just here to help.
Renee King-Sonnen: Good. Well, that'd be interesting.
Glen Merzer: Yeah. Well, let me know when the donkey arrives.
Renee King-Sonnen: That'll be worth another podcast.
Glen Merzer: Absolutely. Now, after you did this, after you did this remarkable transformation of a beef ranch into an animal sanctuary and the equally remarkable transformation of your husband into a vegan, then you decided
Apparently that you want other people who are in the animal farming business to transition.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. Wow. What a trip that's been.
Glen Merzer: Yeah. So that's the rancher advocacy program. So tell us about that. How did that get started and how much success have you had?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, we have the rancher advocacy program and you know, our other program is family's choosing compassion, which is the FFA 4 -H. equivalent, but it's compassion. But the rancher advocacy program, it happened when, you know, you know, I transitioned our cattle ranch and you know, what I didn't realize at the time was how hard it would be for most cattle ranchers to do that. I took my skills, which I'm blessed to many, many skills and all that translated into me being able to navigate the nonprofit because I was a performer for many years, singer.
Glen Merzer: You were a singer, is that right?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah.
Glen Merzer: How does that skill translate into what you're talking about now? You didn't sing to nonprofit funding sources, did you?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, it's singing to the cows, singing. Being able to. Yeah, I write.
Glen Merzer: You sang to the cows?
Renee King-Sonnen: Of course write songs about them. It's in my documentary. I sing to the cows in the documentary in the other end.
Glen Merzer: What other particular songs that that bovines appreciate?
Renee King-Sonnen: Whatever I'm singing for them.
Glen Merzer: OK, would they be love songs?
Renee King-Sonnen: You have to watch the Rowdy Girl documentary. But anyway, so the way the way it all has translated is. I'm the kind of person that can get up in front of 20 ,000 people and perform with a whole dance crew around me. So that's what I used to do. I had my own band. I had I performed for USO shows where I was the lead singer. with dancing, you know, choreography all around me, with all the, you know, with all the costumes, with a big pit orchestra. And so when you can command an audience, you know, you can, you got a lot of, when you got a gift like that, then you can use that in this industry, which I've done. So the cows respect that gift. Not just cows, but, you know, I speak all over the world now.
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: For them.
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: My voice today, instead of singing God bless the USA with a 40 piece orchestra and a big choreographed bunch of dancers around me, you know, or being on a country western stage, you know, singing to a bunch of people, you know, now my voice is used for the animals all over. All right.
Glen Merzer: So. You decide that you're going to use your skills, use your voice to help other animal farmers transition to the side of the angels here?
Renee King-Sonnen: What I did is I listened to other cattle ranchers and their families again. I never reached out to them. They reached out to me. Just like I don't reach out for animals, I never reached out to the first farmer ever. And so when they would call me crying, and they did a lot, the women, All I tried to do was be an empathetic ear. I tried to understand them and let them know that they weren't alone. I wasn't
Glen Merzer: Excuse me, so it was often the women who were married to animal farmers who would reach out to you?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah.
Glen Merzer: The women who were in the same position you had been in?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, they saw it. We were on CBS Evening News. We were in Southwest Airlines Magazine. That's what I'm saying. Our story translated. When I was a singer, I was always written up in things. was always in the news. I was always in papers because I was really, really good. I'm still good at it. But so whenever people would see these news stories, like common everyday cattle ranchers sitting in their living room, eating dinner on CBS Evening News, all of a sudden we're in their lap and these women would contact me and I would talk to them on the phone and I would be somebody that would talk to them and listen to them that they didn't have. Nobody could hear them like I could. And nobody, you know, they had nobody to talk to. And so I didn't start out talking to people wanting to transition their farms. That was never in my brain. What happened was, as a result of talking to many people and letting them know I understood, all at once, One day, somebody that works on our team said, Renee, we need to start talking about your programming and the kind of programming you need to do at Rowdy Group. And we were young at the time, in like 2017 or late 16. And I said, well, and she said, you want to do something different, something nobody else is doing. And I said, well, I don't know. We have the animals, we do tours, we… What? She said, well, what else do you do? Ain't anything else? And so I said, well, know, cattle ranchers, wives call me. mean, I hadn't told anybody about that. It was just all very confidential, quiet. And I said, counter ranchers, wives call me, you know, quite often. Did she got real quiet? And she said, what? I said, yeah, they call me wanting to talk to me about, you know, their heart, their, their foot, their feelings about cows are getting ready to send slaughter. They call And she was like, keep talking. And so next thing you know, she's telling me that that could be my program. And I was like, how's that going to be a program? She said, well, can you think you could help them figure out another way to, you know, do business? And I was like, well, we do talk about that. But, you know, what are they going to do? You The USDA and the government and all, everything's designed for cattle ranchers and chicken farmers, animal farmers to stay farming animals. I mean, you get money, get incentive, you get insurance, you get all the things to farm animals, you know, not to get out of it. And It was. You know, it was, it was, first of all, it was really about my program rap was really about changing hearts and minds. That's what it really was about at first. If you look at all the early, write ups about our program, was about changing hearts and minds, but that wasn't cutting it. And so we started, what happened was I got that phone call years ago about know, the chicken farmer in Arkansas that wanted to transition their farm to something else. didn't know what they were going to at the time. so I got wrapped up in that thing and that took years of my life, know, trying to do everything I could to help them. I made quite, like when I got contacted about that situation. It was really through another person in the movement that's very well known. And this person contacted me, pretty much imploring me to talk to these farmers because they were getting ready to lose the farm. They couldn't feed the cows, all the things. And my heart just went out to that. And I said, what do you need me to do? What can I do to And they said, well, you know, they don't have any money. They're going vegan. They stopped their contract. And I was like, oh my God. And so anyway, long story short on that, I drove up there nine hours and I did a big fundraiser to raise a bunch of money, like right at, I don't know, close to 20 ,000 so to get them some hay for them cows. And then I implored one of our funders, to give them money so that they could keep the lights on and have food and all the things. so anyway, that's where it started. And then the next thing you know, I'm trying to help them figure out what to do. It just started kind of developing. I just kept trying to help them. And in the same like sentence almost, there was another couple trying to transition away from animal, their family was an animal farming and they were vegan and they were trying to do something different on their land. But I wanted to help them too, but it's like this farm in Arkansas was just taking all my attention. So long story short there, I tried, tried, tried, tried, tried. We've got tons of money that I was able to them with But you know, sometimes things just aren't meant to be. this, you know, that, that particular situation that I was trying to help them with just wasn't meant to be because the, the funders couldn't keep funding it. And so, cause they, couldn't make it work. And so because they couldn't make it work, you know, the funders finally had to stop funding it.
Glen Merzer: So it was very difficult to make the, this transition let's say being a chicken farmer to mushroom farmer. It's tough to make the economics work.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. I mean, you know, especially when you're upside down like they were,
Glen Merzer: you know, the problem is starting with too much debt,
Renee King-Sonnen: so much debt. And that's the problem is, these, these government, you know, our government, you know, wants you in debt. Right.
Glen Merzer: It's like, you know, and so did the big chicken operations, right? Yes, they want you. These farmers have effectively become indentured servants of the big poultry operations.
Renee King-Sonnen: That's what I was just about to say. You took the words out of my mouth. I knew that. That's what happened to them.
Glen Merzer: So you know what the cows are thinking and I know what you're thinking.
Renee King-Sonnen: There you go.
Glen Merzer: So it's a tough industry.
Renee King-Sonnen: It's tough. It's And do I still believe it can happen? Yeah. You know, I believe it can. I believe it will. I believe one day, 50 years from now, when I'm dead and gone, maybe somebody will be saying, remember that crazy rowdy girl? She had a bright idea. You know? But I mean, What do you do? mean, my mission was not to transition farms. My mission was to transition hearts and minds.
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: It was my real mission. Yeah. And so it turned into this thing because my heart was so big for them that I wanted to help them so bad that I used the people that fund us and others. just begged them to help. And they did. They're good people, you can't keep... Sometimes when it's business, you got to make a business decision.
Glen Merzer: Yeah. So it's a lot easier to start a mushroom operation than to transition from a chicken farm to a mushroom operation.
Renee King-Sonnen: I wish it wasn't so.
Glen Merzer: Yeah.
Renee King-Sonnen: I wish it was. I was just talking to a chicken farmer because people still call me. They call me all the time. You know, I get probably one or two calls a month, not all the time, but one or two calls a month from nowhere. A chicken farmer, where was she from? A lady wanting to transition her chicken farm to a mushroom farm, know? And if I can help somebody figure it out just by talking to them and they can go do it, I mean, I am a resource, you know? I have been through the ringer on trying to you know, people transition. So it's, it's just something I've had to kind of make a choice, you know, do I want to, do I want to continue to throw all of my energy time resources and all into that when, know, our story, our rowdy girl story is, being told in a documentary. My book is coming out. You know, soon, you know, I mean, it's I've got a talent agent in New York, United talent agency. That is the proposal is being written and it'll be pitched to, you know, major publishers, all the major publishers and a big, you know, narrative film is being made on our story. I mean, the script is being written and pitched. So, you know, I had to make some decisions, you know, I've got change hearts and minds i can't just spend all my time trying to back the government which i would like to do you got about the government and that's like evil
Glen Merzer: so i'd tell us about first the rowdy girl documentary can people see that now is that out
Renee King-Sonnen: It is out, but it's in film screenings. It's in festivals all over the world. It was in Ukraine, it was in Brazil, it was in Korea. We had the opening, the world premiere was at Hot Docs in Toronto. The United States premiere was at Hampton's Film Festival. It's been, you know, I just got back from Hollywood and Santa Monica and New York City, Moby met me there and Moby was, you know, is our...
Glen Merzer: Did Moby provide any music for the documentary?
Renee King-Sonnen: There's no, the only music in the documentary is me singing and the and acapella, the animals and the conversations I had with cattle ranchers and people that came to visit.
Glen Merzer: Okay. So the documentary is not currently available to the public to be seen.
Renee King-Sonnen: But it's it's it's in theaters. So like if you are in a like right now, I think it was in Pennsylvania last week.
Glen Merzer: Can they find on a website where it may be playing at which website?
Renee King-Sonnen: Rowdy girl film dot com.
Glen Merzer: Rowdy girl film dot com. So go to rowdy girl film dot com. And see where and what's the name of the documentary?
Renee King-Sonnen: Rowdy Girl.
Glen Merzer: Rowdy Girl. Well named. OK, so that's the documentary. And who's the director?
Renee King-Sonnen: Jason Goldman.
Glen Merzer: Jason Goldman. That's right. All right. Now, what about the book? Is the book is a manuscript looking to get published? Is that it?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, it's called Secret Diary of a Cattle Rancher's Wife. That's the working title. OK.
Glen Merzer: And is that by you alone? By me alone. I read every word. Okay. And Jane Jane Delez Mitchell listened to every I read it to her. She was my muse.
Renee King-Sonnen: OK. But anyway, and so you're shopping that book around for a publisher. United Talent Agency Bird Level is my agent and in New York. And I've been actually actually have been talking to a publisher that really was interested, a major one. But I think we're going to be taking it far and wide. So It's getting it's getting quite it's really. A lot of people are reading it in the in the world that can make a difference,
Glen Merzer: so that's great. Can you share the name of the title, the title of the book with us?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, right now, the working title is Secret Diary of a Cattle Ranchers.
Glen Merzer: OK,
Renee King-Sonnen: I don't know what it'll I think that's probably a good title, right?
Glen Merzer: That's a good title.
Renee King-Sonnen: We'll see if it stays that way. And then. The movie that's being written right now is produced. It's going to be produced by Kip Andersen, Cameron Waters. Roger Wolfson is writing it and will also be helping produce. And I'm the executive producer.
Glen Merzer: And so this will be a feature film based on a true story, based on your story.
Renee King-Sonnen: It's so funny. I just read the treatment. That, another draft of it last night. It's hilarious.
Glen Merzer: Well, who's going to play you?
Renee King-Sonnen: I don't know.
Glen Merzer: Scarlett Johansson.
Renee King-Sonnen: I don't know. Who is that?
Glen Merzer: I that would be a good choice. We could get her to turn vegan.
Renee King-Sonnen: I have to look her up. I don't know who it is.
Glen Merzer: Okay.
Renee King-Sonnen: I don't watch TV. Okay. I I watch it. guess I'll watch it when it comes out. And if somebody tells me I need to watch something because of whatever reason, I'll go watch it. But you know, I don't keep a TV on. Okay.
Glen Merzer: Well, do you have a favorite actress to have in mind to play you?
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, I you know, I remember when I, you know, like I watched, I love Julia Roberts and, but she's probably too old now. I don't know. She might not be. And I like, What's that girl's name that played Pinky Tuscadero? Yeah.
Glen Merzer: Well, I think you just by the way, I think you just lost your chance of getting Julia Roberts.
Renee King-Sonnen: Why?
Glen Merzer: Because you said I think she may be too old. I doubt
Renee King-Sonnen: Why?
Glen Merzer: Well, she probably wouldn't want to hear that.
Renee King-Sonnen: Well, I think the reason why I'm telling you that is because they're trying to do it. They want to they want the person that plays me to be like. I think in their late 30s.
Glen Merzer: I see. I see your point. Well, Scarlett Johansson.
Renee King-Sonnen: What she play in.
Glen Merzer: She's been in many films. She's been in some of those superhero films and. Who's in a Woody Allen film? She's a big star.
Renee King-Sonnen: If you say.
Glen Merzer: Probably. She played a Senator from Mississippi recently. She was hilarious.
Renee King-Sonnen: I have to look her up.
Glen Merzer: Yeah. Yeah. Most people have heard of her, believe me.
Renee King-Sonnen: you know, I probably when I see her, I'll know. But, know, when I met Tommy. The first time the first words out of my mouth to Tommy, I was sitting on his lap, you know, crazy. I was singing at a nightclub with my with a with a band a duo, had a duo and I had a wireless microphone and Tommy walked int this nightclub. It's a long story. I won't go into it, but I walked off the stage with the spotlight that I used and I went over and sat in his lap and started singing crazy. And it's been crazy ever since. And so that is, that is how Tommy and I met. Wow.
Glen Merzer: Do you think Tommy would be willing to come on my podcast one day and I'll get his perspective?
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, you ought to get Tommy.
Glen Merzer: Yeah.
Renee King-Sonnen: He's he's so good.
Glen Merzer: Yeah.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. I mean, when Tommy does go with me anywhere. Yeah. I can just sit in the background.
Glen Merzer: Yeah. Well, would you would you tell Tommy that I'd love to have him on the show?
Renee King-Sonnen: Mm hmm. OK, I will. All right.
Glen Merzer: Well, there seem to be great things ahead of you, Renee. A book, a movie, and the documentary is out and playing in different theaters now. We got to get it on TV, though. You got to get it streaming.
Renee King-Sonnen: Eventually it will. It's just the producer, the director, they have a big plan for it all. So, you know, we got distribution. And so as soon as all this plays out, it'll be in schools. Eventually it will be streaming, then it's going to be, everybody's going to know about it and will want to stream. So it'll be good.
Glen Merzer: More people will find you and then more animals will find you.
Renee King-Sonnen: Exactly. That's why I said I had to put my focus. I still believe, I'm always here to help anybody want to transition. If I can connect you like I sent this one person over to transformation over at Mercy for Animals, because maybe they can help. There's others doing it now since I started all the noise about this. now there are other organizations trying to do it. don't know how much... I mean, it's not easy. So my hat's off to anybody that stays in that mess. It's hard. But now RAP, just so you know, because RAP has its own social media too.
Glen Merzer: Now when you say RAP, you mean the Rancher Advocacy Program.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah, I mean, now, because now we all of our content now on our social channels is all about education, inspiring, know, people up. It's you know, the program now has just turned into just telling the stories about farmers that are transitioning, telling the stories about, you know, news, you know, new products that maybe are making waves, you know, legislation that's being changed. We just we just educate now.
Glen Merzer: That's wonderful. All right. Well, Renee, it's been a great pleasure speaking with you and I'm wishing you all the success in the world with the book and the movie.
Renee King-Sonnen: Thank you.
Glen Merzer: And one day you should be a household name like Scarlett Johansson.
Renee King-Sonnen: So somebody can say, who's that girl? I don't know her.
Glen Merzer: So people can find you at rowdy girl .com and rowdy girl sanctuary .org. Is that right?
Renee King-Sonnen: No rowdy girl .com is no, it's rowdy girl sanctuary .org.
Glen Merzer: Right.
Renee King-Sonnen: And all the social channels. mean, we're on we're on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. mean, we have over 10 ,000 followers on Twitter. just how did that happen? We're on TikTok. We're on YouTube.
Glen Merzer: And what's the name of the YouTube channel? Rowdy Girl?
Renee King-Sonnen: Rowdy Girl Sanctuary.
Glen Merzer: Rowdy Girl Sanctuary. is there a for the Rancher Advocacy program? Is that found through RowdyGirlSanctuary .org?
Renee King-Sonnen: It's also on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter.
Glen Merzer: OK.
Renee King-Sonnen: It's not on TikTok, but RAP is on, you know, well, what is it? X. It's X, Facebook and Instagram.
Glen Merzer: Yeah, X.
Renee King-Sonnen: I don't know what that's about. Yeah.
Glen Merzer: Well, they paid that guy something like $50 billion to change the name from Twitter to X. I would have done it for less. Renee, it's been a great pleasure speaking with you. Keep up the good work and we'll see you soon.
Renee King-Sonnen: Yeah. I'll tell Tommy to reach out to you.
Glen Merzer: Oh, yes. I must interview Tommy. All right. Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Renee King-Sonnen: Bye bye.
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