Emma Schwarz is not your average filmmaker. She’s a multi-talented creator who’s redefining how we connect with the vegan movement. As a co-founder of Veganography, an award-winning film production company, and Executive Director of the International Vegan Film Festival, Emma’s mission is to inspire the world to embrace compassion through creative storytelling. Her films have not only appeared on platforms like PBS and Unchained TV but have also earned prestigious awards, proving the impact of visual media in promoting veganism.
In a recent interview on The Glen Merzer Show, Emma shared her inspiring journey from a music student to a leading voice in vegan advocacy. After experiencing personal hardships, she embraced a whole-food, plant-based diet, which transformed both her physical and emotional well-being. Emma recalls, “I felt so much calmer and at peace with myself... I was finally living in alignment with my true values of compassion and empathy.”
Through Veganography, Emma and her team have created films that highlight the emotional intelligence of animals, fostering a deeper connection between viewers and the vegan cause. “We taught chickens at the sanctuary to respond to their names, proving just how smart and personable these animals really are,” Emma shared. This unique blend of activism and art makes her work stand out in the movement.
For Emma, the future of veganism lies in effective communication. Her new book, Plant-Powered Persuasion: Effective Communication for Vegans, teaches activists how to inspire change through empathy rather than confrontation. Emma's story reminds us that the key to creating a compassionate world starts with powerful, relatable storytelling.
Listen to Emma Schwarz’s full interview on The Glen Merzer Show, and discover how she’s revolutionizing vegan activism one film at a time.
Watch the full episode of here: Emma Schwarz: Filmmaker, Photographer, Author, and Vegan Activist
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DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here: Emma Schwarz: Filmmaker, Photographer, Author, and Vegan Activist
Glen Merzer: Welcome to The Glen Merzer Show. could find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You could find us on YouTube. And please remember to subscribe. And you could find us at RealMenEatPlants .com Emma Schwarz, our guest today, is an award winning filmmaker, animal photographer, content creator, author and vegan activist. She's the co -founder of Veganography. a film production and media company using digital content to inspire the public to embrace a vegan lifestyle and empower vegans in their activism. Veganography's work has been featured on prominent streaming platforms and social media channels such as PBS, Unchained TV, and Vegan FTA. That stands for For the Animals. Emma also serves as the executive director for the International Vegan Film Festival and is the author plant powered persuasion, effective communication for vegans. Emma, welcome to the show.
Emma Schwarz: Thank you so much for having me, Glen. I'm very happy to be here.
Glen Merzer: So how long have you been a vegan, Emma?
Emma Schwarz: Yes. So I just had my seven year anniversary.
Glen Merzer: I didn't get you anything. I'm sorry.
Emma Schwarz: No worries.
Glen Merzer: Happy anniversary.
Emma Schwarz: Thank you.
Glen Merzer: So what happened seven years ago that brought you to the side of the angels here?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, yeah. So I was studying music in music school. So was an undergrad. And music school is very difficult on the students. There's a lot of kind of psychological abuse, to be honest, and it's very intense working conditions. And you're basically conditioned to surrender your entire identity to music making. And so you don't friend groups, don't have hobbies, you don't do anything outside of music. And after being in music school for a couple years, that really started to wear on me. And then I had a relationship that was long distance that ended. And so just all of those things kind of culminated and I kind of reached like a rock bottom where I just wasn't happy with where I was in life. I wasn't happy who I was or how I felt in my body. And so I started doing a lot of research and I stumbled across a lot of documentaries such as What the Health and Forks Over Knives. And those documentaries just really opened my eyes to how a plant -based diet and a vegan lifestyle can not only make you feel better physically, but make you feel more in tune with yourself and your own compassion and empathy for other living beings. So I decided to go whole food plant -based vegan overnight. And I immediately noticed the change. felt like I had so much more energy. I shed some extra weight. My lifelong acne like completely disappeared. So my health was just phenomenal. But what I really loved was that change in my demeanor. I felt so much calmer and at peace with myself because I was finally living in alignment with my true values of compassion and empathy for others.
Glen Merzer: It's a beautiful story.
Emma Schwarz: Thank you.
Glen Merzer: It's you know, it's interesting that that what really impressed you was how you change sort of emotionally, not just physically.
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, it's really interesting that emotional change that happens. And you really like I didn't expect it. I expected the physical changes. But when I noticed that those emotional changes, it was truly like a change in my anxiety and just my demeanor. It's just like I was so much calmer all the time. I didn't react to things or events or people in the way that I used to. I was much more kind of just serene. And after reflecting on that, I realized it's just because I felt at peace with myself, right? It's like I had these values and I was living them to their truest expression in my everyday life.
Glen Merzer: Wow, that's beautiful. Now, did you continue with music?
Emma Schwarz: I did. So I got my undergraduate in cello performance and then I got my graduate degree in cello pedagogy. And I had a very great career in music and was seeing a lot of success there and had a lot of really meaningful relationships with my students. The reason why I chose to get my graduate degree in pedagogy is because I wanted to make the world a better place through education. So my entire life had been about music and I decided to take music and make that about education. And so my vision with that was to cultivate beautiful character traits in children through the study of music, because music, when you have a good teacher, can be really great for character development. You develop delayed gratification, you develop self -introspection, the ability to take criticism dedication to a craft. So it really can foster a lot of positive growth in students. And so that was my vision with becoming a teacher. And I had a great career with that and had lots of meaningful relationships with my students. But the longer that I was in music, the more I felt this kind of dissonance between the way that I was affecting the world because I was having a positive effect, but I really wanted to have a positive effect with animals and animal rights and environmental protection because that's what was really in my heart. And it just so happened that one of my students, their family actually owned an animal sanctuary. And so I got closer with them and then they eventually ended up offering me a position at the animal sanctuary. so that was like -
Glen Merzer: Let let me guess, teaching the animals to play the cello?
Emma Schwarz: Not quite, not quite. But we did have some cello concerts at the sanctuary for the animals, which was really fun.
Glen Merzer: OK.
Emma Schwarz: So, that was kind of a nice transition out of music and into the animal advocacy realm. So I worked as director of advancement at that animal sanctuary and was responsible for the education and development departments of the sanctuary.
Glen Merzer: Could you tell us where that animal sanctuary is?
Emma Schwarz: Yes. So it's Leaven Arms Animal Sanctuary in Erie, Colorado.
Glen Merzer: OK. And now when you were teaching cello, how old were your students?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, my students ranged from three years old all the way to adult, but most kids were about like eight to twelve years old.
Glen Merzer: OK. And do you find that young kids take to the cello?
Emma Schwarz: Absolutely. So my graduate degree is in Suzuki pedagogy, which is kind of the preeminent way to teach cello in all instruments And Suzuki actually begins at birth. So from zero to three, you do a lot of music listening with the children and a lot of like stomping to music and just kind of like getting music in their bodies. And then the official education on an instrument starts at three years old.
Glen Merzer: Wow. I can't imagine a three year old playing the cello.
Emma Schwarz: it's so cute. And we get like tiny cellos for them and sit and just like, you know, we do lots of songs of like hugging the cello and, you know, just getting them comfortable with it. It's so adorable.
Glen Merzer: how was working with animals after you were working with children? What was that change like?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, so that's really interesting. With children, you know, they are at a different developmental stage than adults, right? So it's an adjustment to learn how to communicate with a three year old versus an eight year old versus, you know, an adult. Right. So you have to find how you can communicate with the individual in front of you, what words make sense to them, what gesticulations make sense to them, how you can figure out a way to create a common language. And animals are the same way. Like their language is different than ours, but we can communicate. And one of the cool things we had at the sanctuary was what we called our clicker play program where we basically taught our residents how to do certain tasks. So we taught them how to spin on command. We taught them how to differentiate colors. We taught them their names. And so we had this system of communication where we were able to talk with the residents and communicate and show that humans and animals can create a common language. And that was such an important educational tool because when we brought people in to these farmed animal residents, we could show them, hey, they're really intelligent. They're just like your dogs. Like they can learn commands and tasks. They can learn their names. They can build friendships with people. so that creating that common language was a really important educational aspect that we did at the sanctuary.
Glen Merzer: you know that they know their names because they react when they hear their names.
Emma Schwarz: Exactly. So. Actually, the chickens were some of the smartest residents at the sanctuary. Contrary to popular belief, everyone thinks chickens are not very smart, but the chickens were really, really smart. And so we'd have a whole flock of chickens and then we'd call Gracie. And Gracie was the only one who would come to you and get her treats. None of the other ones would respond because that wasn't their name.
Glen Merzer: Now, do you think that chickens have names that they give each other? or only people can give chickens names.
Emma Schwarz: that's an interesting point. Well, chickens in particular have the ability to recognize and categorize up to 100 different individual faces. Right. That's where pecking order comes from. So they can recognize individuals and know where they are in the social ladder. So they may may or may not have particular names in terms of like a particular vocalization for each other, but they certainly can recognize individuals and know where they are in the social order. So I would say kind of, yes, they do.
Glen Merzer: OK, so you have a background, a strong background in music, playing the cello, teaching the cello, working with animals. At what point does somebody say, hey, this woman, Emma Schwarz, she really knows her chickens. She could communicate with chickens. She could play the cello. Let's make her executive director of the International Vegan Film Festival. How did that transition happen?
Emma Schwarz: Yes. So at the sanctuary, my partner at the time was actually the videographer at the sanctuary as well. So he and I worked really closely together writing and creating films that were telling the stories of the animals at the sanctuary. And we created a number of films doing that. We also created films for the gala programs at the sanctuary, which helped raise a lot of funds for the care of the animals. So my partner and I really started specializing in filmmaking within like the context of the sanctuary and vegan storytelling. And we started entering those films into festivals, both the International Vegan Film Festival, which I wasn't executive director at the time. We just submitted our films to that festival and other festivals around the world that weren't even necessarily vegan oriented. They were just film festivals. And then our films actually started winning a lot of awards. And one of the...One of the kind of proudest moments of our career was one of our films that we did with Mike the Vegan, who's a YouTuber who has over 400K subscribers. We collaborated with him on a film and that won an award at an LA film festival where Moby's film was also being premiered. And then we actually were on a Q &A panel with Moby talking to the audience about vegan filmmaking. So that was kind of my segue into vegan filmmaking. And my partner and I realized that we could reach so many more people with media and content creation and filmmaking than could physically visit the animal sanctuary because an animal sanctuary just by nature, it's a physical place, right? Only so many people are gonna be able to visit that, but anyone can watch a film online. So we made the difficult decision to leave the sanctuary. It was very sad. We love everyone there and we love the animals, but we just wanted to focus our attention full time on filmmaking and content creation so we could reach as many people as possible. So that was kind of our career into content creation and filmmaking. And we had submitted to the International Vegan Film Festival multiple years in a row, attended the film festival, met all all the people involved in there. And then last year, the current executive director announced that he was stepping down and they were looking for someone new. And I applied for the position and there were other candidates. And very fortunately, they offered me the position. And it's been a pleasure to step into that role and support the work of other vegan filmmakers.
Glen Merzer: That is great. How did you tell me? Tell us about the your responsibilities as executive director of the Vegan International Vegan Film Festival.
Emma Schwarz: Yes. So the International Vegan Film Festival was founded in 2018 by Sean Stratton. And he had this amazing vision of an entire film festival dedicated to vegan themed films. And at the time that didn't exist. That was the first festival in the world to say, hey, we're all about veganism and supporting or promoting compassion towards animals and the environment and also human health as well. So he had this incredible vision of creating this film festival around vegan themes. And that has been going from 2018. And then as I've stepped in to my new role as executive director in January, 2024, we're really looking to expand the film festival beyond just celebrating films, but actually driving the evolution of vegan activism. So we're expanding our programming. One of the big things we're doing for our festival this year is in addition to the film festival, we're hosting an activism workshop right before the film festival. So social media expert, John Oberg, who has over 1 billion lifetime views has agreed to come to Toronto and host a workshop on how to use social media as an effective tool for animal activism. So that's kind of how we're starting to launch IVFF as an organization that is driving the evolution of vegan activism, showing people that art and social media is an effective way to create change. And we really want to support the creators who are doing that.
Glen Merzer: OK, man, he has one billion views.
Emma Schwarz: He's amazing. His content is so far reaching. So we're very excited for his. workshop because he is such an expert and he can teach anyone how to use social media effectively.
Glen Merzer: Is a lot of his content vegan themed?
Emma Schwarz: yeah, it's all vegan themed.
Glen Merzer: He's like a billion views.
Emma Schwarz: Yes. Yes.
Glen Merzer: My new hero.
Emma Schwarz: I know he's my hero for sure. John Oberg. He's an incredible animal activist.
Glen Merzer: OK, now. In your daily life, do you do you would you say you have more friends who are vegans or non vegans?
Emma Schwarz: That's a very good question. So I would say I have more vegan friends and a lot of my my network has actually gone vegan from being friends with me. So I've helped another number of people in my network transition to being vegan. And a lot of that is, you know, what I talk about in my new book that I just published, Plant -Powered Persuasion Effective Communication for Vegans is how
Glen Merzer: think it's over your right shoulder.
Hold Yes, it is. It's right here. Yeah. So that book is all... I've distilled what I've learned as an animal advocate and animal sanctuary director and content creator and filmmaker into this book because when I first went vegan, I was an extremely ineffective communicator. I was like so in everyone's face and telling everyone they need to go vegan and it just did not work. Like people stopped talking to me. There were lots of fights, lots of screaming matches and no one went vegan and I was so frustrated. And then over the course of my vegan evolution and having all of these jobs and vegan advocacy, I've really learned how to inspire people to go vegan. And a lot of that is just providing the information and being really nice about it, but not making them feel pressured to change and then living your truth. So when people look at you and say like, wow, you're really healthy and really active and you have lots of energy and you're really happy and you feel really, you look really at peace with yourself. They're attracted to that. And they're like, what's going on with you? Like, what are you doing? And then you can say, well, I feel this way because I'm vegan. So I've helped a lot of people in my community transition towards veganism using those those tactics. And so I would say the majority of my network is actually vegan.
Glen Merzer: And that's in part by conversion.
Emma Schwarz: In part by conversion, yes. There were a lot of, you know.
Glen Merzer: Good for you on that. Now, I'm sure you still have some friends who are not vegan, right?
Emma Schwarz: Yes.
Glen Merzer: And does it cause any conflict? You go out to dinner or or where the subject of health comes up or?Or I don't know what they say that you're too restrictive in your diet. Does any any conflicts come up with friends or family?
Emma Schwarz: Sure. So I would say now, no, there are no conflicts for sure in the past. Absolutely. In the past, I would get very aggressive and tell people that they need to go vegan or I don't want to watch them eating dead animals or things like that. But I just realized after a time that that's just not effective. When I say things like that, people go the opposite direction. They're not inspired to be vegan. They're inspired to be even more, you know, like eating animal products even more. So I think what I've learned is that approaching people with compassion and meeting them where they're at and not making them feel bad about their choices, but instead inspiring them or attracting them to something more positive. One of the biggest lessons I've learned is people don't change when they're shamed out of something negative. They change when they're attracted to something positive. So just setting that positive example, making them feel welcomed and not judged is the best environment for creating change. And sometimes people will never go fully vegan, but they might choose to go more plant -based. And that's still a win. Like shifting the meter is still a win.
Glen Merzer: Right. And you're a whole plant food vegan, right?
Emma Schwarz: Yes.
Glen Merzer: Not a junk food vegan, right?
Emma Schwarz: Yes.
Glen Merzer: I can tell by looking at you. So, you know, I've had this argument with some people who are vegans just for the animals and they eat vegan junk food. And I feel if you want to inspire other people to go vegan, set a healthy example.
Emma Schwarz: I completely agree. people who are just vegan for the animals, which of course I'm vegan for the animals, you are too, like 100%, that is a factor. So I think that's a very important thing to recognize that people who are whole food plant -based are also motivated for the animals, right? But there's just more layers on top of that. So I think people who vegan for the animals who don't care about their own health and just want to eat junk food or whatever, that's fine as your personal choice. I'm never going to judge you for that. Like if that's how you want to live your life, more power to you. No one's getting hurt. So that's wonderful. But like you said, that's not the most effective way to inspire other people because other people want to be healthy. They want to have that vibrancy. And you only get that with a really healthy vegan diet. So I think if you're looking to inspire your community, you do want to err more on the side of whole food plant based.
Glen Merzer: How about your family? Did your family go vegan?
Emma Schwarz: Some of them have. Yes. So my really good success story is my aunt was suffering from very low iron levels. She was very iron deficient in her ferritin levels were very low to the concentration of iron in your blood cells. And she kept making comments to me like, you know, I really don't like to eat meat because it's like cruel to the animals. But every once in a while, I just have to eat a hamburger to get the iron. And instead of, you know, launching into a lecture about that, I was, I would just like, okay, you know, I see where you're coming from. Well, did you know that, you know, all iron actually, enters the food chain through plants because plants are the only organisms that can extract iron from the soil. So you're really just getting it secondhand in a hamburger. And just a little comment like that, that isn't telling her to do anything. I'm not telling her, hey, you'd be better off eating plants, but it's just a little factoid that piqued her interest. And over time, maybe about three months of just little things like that, she came to me and said, hey, I want to try going whole food plant -based. Can you help me? And so she got her iron levels tested at the beginning. And then 30 days later, after going whole food plant -based, her iron levels had doubled. And we're in the normal range now, and her ferritin levels had quadrupled and her doctor didn't believe that that was from diet alone. Her doctor thought she had taken supplements, but she had taken zero iron supplements. It was simply from switching to whole food plant based vegan. And after that, she was like, I'm sold done like vegan for life.
Glen Merzer: She had taken no iron supplements and her doctor had taken no courses in nutrition. And the iron that you get from plant foods, the non -heme iron is far healthier for the body than the heme iron that's implicated in heart disease.
Emma Schwarz: Absolutely. Yes.
Glen Merzer: So that's one good conversion in your family. Would you say that when you
socialize with people and you go out with a group and some are vegans and some are not, that the subject comes up a lot or it doesn't come up too often?
Emma Schwarz: it always comes up.
Glen Merzer: It always comes up.
Emma Schwarz: Yes. Especially if you're eating, right? I'm sure every vegan has had that, you know, experience where you order something different or you ask, you know, 20 questions to the waiter about the food. And I find that the best The best way to simultaneously educate people because you want to talk about it. You want people to have an experience with you, a positive experience with you, but also to not make them feel judgmental is just be very positive. Just talk about all the positive reasons that you do it, like how you feel. how much energy you have, any personal transformation stories that you have. I always talk about how my skin completely cleared up. I had suffered with lifelong acne from the time of eight years old to 19 years old. And then when I vegan, it completely disappeared. So any positive kind of transformation stories that you can share, because you want people to feel inspired and attracted to something positive. So I don't really talk about the negative, horrific you know, cruelty that animals suffer, which is so important for people to know, but not at the dinner table when they are actively consuming animals, because if they're actively consuming animals and you're talking about horrific experience of animals and you know, the violent slaughter of animals, they, what happens is they get defensive because they're eating animals right now. So they feel the need to defend their choices right now. So at the dinner table is not the time to talk about that. There certainly is a time and place, and it's very important to do that, but not at the dinner table and not when you're first meeting people. So I always err on the side of positivity and showing all the positive aspects that it has, all the positive changes that it has made for me in my life.
Glen Merzer: Right. I've always had to navigate that in writing books. You know, do I call it meat or do I call it dead animals?carcasses, whatever. And I use all the terms almost interchangeably, but I have a good friend who is not vegan. And he called me on it once and he said, Glen, why do you say dead animals? You know, it's very off putting. I don't eat dead animals. I eat meat. He said, all right, I understand your point of view. And I told that story to a vegan friend and he said, why do you call it dead animals? Why don't you call it tortured? abused, know, slave animals. So it's to, it's hard to hit the right mix.
Emma Schwarz: It is, it is. And I think it really depends on who you're talking to. So one of the things that I learned as, you know, a cello teacher and cello pedagogue was that everything, how you communicate depends on the person in front of you. I can deliver the exact same information to two different people. in completely different words because I know what works for each person. I might use a different analogy or I might connect to a personal thing that I know about them in delivering the same exact information. And I think that's true for vegan activism. You really have to know your audience. So if you're trying to kind of shock someone into seeing meat differently, I think it's perfectly acceptable to say dead animals because you want them to know, to change their perspective that this isn't just an inanimate food object. This is a living being who was killed. So that can be very effective when you're using dead animals. But if you know that someone is very resistant to the vegan message and will just roll their eyes and stop listening, then I would probably use the term meat because it will keep their attention and keep our conversation open and not close them off. So you really have to know your audience.
Glen Merzer: That is absolutely correct. Now, what would happen when you played cello for the animals?
Emma Schwarz: Oh my gosh, they loved it. So there was this one time that I brought my cello out to the cow pasture. I, so I brought my chair and cello and the cows were like 300 feet away, like across the pasture, way, way across. And so I just started playing and as soon as my bow hit the string, this cow named Tito, who is about six feet tall at the shoulder and over 2000 pounds, As soon as my bow hit the string, Tito's head like whipped over and looked at me. And then he started sprinting across the pasture right at me. And so I'm playing like watching him get closer and closer, this 2000 pound cow like hurtling at me. And I'm waiting for him to like slow down and he's like not slowing down at all. And so finally when he gets close enough, I'm like, okay, he's not stopping. So I like jump up and he like runs over the chair that I was sitting on. And then he, you know, quiets down and he starts sniffing my cello as I'm standing there. And so I kind of get him comfortable with it. And then as he's calmed down, then I sit down and start playing again. And then he just sat there and listened and was kind of sniffing me. And he just loved it. But literally across the cowpaster, he bolted for the music.
Glen Merzer: Wow. So would you say a classical music fan?
Emma Schwarz: Yes, I was playing Bach for him. So he is a huge Bach fan.
Glen Merzer: Now, the cello. How many different forms of music can it be? mean, I never heard cello in in punk rock. Does anyone use a cello in a punk rock band?
Emma Schwarz: Cello has actually become very popular recently in kind of popular music. Nirvana actually used cello quite a bit. So if you know their unplugged performance, one of their songs, Where Did You Go Last Night, they used cello in that song. So it is a very versatile instrument. It can be very vocal and melodic. It's the instrument that's most like the human voice, but it can also be quite intense as well. So it's pretty versatile.
Glen Merzer: the cello is most like the human voice?
Emma Schwarz: Mm Yes.
Glen Merzer: How do they determine that?
Emma Schwarz: It's like the frequency. So the vocal range is most similar to the human voice. And then it also kind of has the most similar timbre or kind of like quality of sound to a human voice. So woodwind instruments sound really different. They can sound very reedy or woody, which it doesn't sound similar to the human voice, but string instruments just have a timbre. that is most similar to the human voice.
Glen Merzer: But the cello more than the violin or other string instrument.
Emma Schwarz: Correct. Because the violin goes super, super high and the human voice can't match that. So kind of the range of like the notes that the cello can play is a similar range to the human voice.
Glen Merzer: OK. Are the strings used in string instruments always vegan?
Emma Schwarz: That's a very good question. Historically, before the 20th century, they were made out of animal guts. So they're called gut strings. And then in the 20th century, there were some technological advancements where they can make them out of steel now. that's the steel is the preferred material for strings now. But some historical performers advocate like you can still buy gut strings to perform historical pieces like Bach, for instance, should technically be performed on gut strings, because that's all that existed in Bach's time. So there's that kind of dichotomy between steel and gut strings. And then also the hairs on the bow are traditionally from horsehair as well. So you can have a cello with using steel strings, most bow hairs are still going to be from horses. So that's another kind of ethical dilemma. And now that I don't play cello anymore, I'm happy to not have that dilemma in my life.
Glen Merzer: So you don't play it anymore?
Emma Schwarz: No, I don't play anymore.
Glen Merzer: That cow is going to be disappointed.
Emma Schwarz: I know Tito is so disappointed. But I have students there that can go and play for him, so Tito can still get his cello picks.
Glen Merzer: So how come you don't play anymore?
Emma Schwarz: Well, yeah, it's a Interesting question. It's like I kind of alluded to before music school was can be really traumatic. And that certainly was my experience. And, you know, before I went to music school, there was a lot of joy in playing there was a lot of joy in that, you know, personal development through the study of music. And then just being in that environment of music school where your entire worth as a human being is truly dependent on like how you perform. Like you are literally like, if you don't perform well, you're worthless. Like that's how they make you feel. And that just kind of took the joy out of it for me. you know, so it's just not a positive experience for me anymore. There are certainly other people who, you know, can find joy in playing just for themselves and that's wonderful. And I support that. And that's just not my experience anymore. And that's okay. But I really have learned a lot from my experiences. If I could do it again, I would. I wouldn't change anything about my experience because I learned so much in that world and so much about myself and how I want to contribute to the world and contribute to society and how I want to treat others and how I want to teach others. I don't want to teach from a place of negativity. I want to teach from a place of positivity. So it really taught me a lot of valuable lessons, but You know, chapter of my life is closed now.
Glen Merzer: All right. We'll be back with the fascinating Emma Schwarz in a fewseconds.
Glen Merzer: OK. We're back with Emma Schwarz. Let's talk a little more about the International Vegan Film Festival, of which you are the executive director. that the title?
Emma Schwarz: Correct.
Glen Merzer: So.Do you review all the submissions to the festival or there's a different panel of judges that do that?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. submissions are open every year from January until June. So if anyone out there has a film, it can be feature length or it can be as short as sub 90 seconds, which I'll get into that category in a sec. You can submit it to IVFF. And then what we do, our judging adjudication process is really unique. So we source from our community. We ask people from our community to become what we call film reviewers. So all, and anyone can apply to become a film reviewer. So you get access to all the submissions to IVFF, and then you have a month to watch all of them and rate all of them on a scale of one to 10. And we have various categories where you do that. And then an overall rating is generated. And then from those film reviewers, we take the top rated films and then send those to our panel of expert judges who are filmmakers and experts in the film industry. And then they choose the films that get awards and that are selected to the festival. So I think that's a really cool thing that we do is involving the community in the adjudication process so that you get to feel like you're a part of IVFF. And then, you know, the final award decisions are made by experts in the film industry.
Glen Merzer: And when and where does this festival happen?
Emma Schwarz: Yes. So the annual festival is in Toronto in November. This year, it's Saturday, November 16th in Toronto. And so that's kind of the annual festival. But another really cool program that we have is after the annual festival in November, we take a smaller selection of the films from the festival and then package them into what we call our world tour. And so that is a package of the best films. And then you can actually apply to host a screening in your own community. And then we provide you with the film package and marketing materials and press releases and a trailer and everything you need to put it on in your community so you can host a screening of IVFF in your community. And we do that because we really want IVFF to be a year round process and we want as many people as possible to see these films. And it's a great thing for vegans if you're vegan to host in your community and then invite all of your non -vegan friends and get them to see these films and hopefully inspire some change in their lives.
Glen Merzer: Now, are all the films that you that get submitted documentary style or do you have some fiction vegan themed films?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, that's a great question. So all kinds. So there are a lot of documentaries, but our categories are kind of based on the purpose or topic of your film. So a couple of categories that we have are best vegan themed feature films. So that can be either a documentary of fiction. have animal advocacy. Again, that can be a documentary or fiction. We have health and nutrition that's more geared towards documentaries. those are kind of the categories. It's more about the purpose of the film. So for instance, two submissions that we had this year were both from Earthling Ed. One of them was a documentary about slaughterhouse workers and what their experience is like. So that's a documentary. then the other one was an animated film that Earthling Ed produced that is fiction and it's about following a carton of milk backwards in time. So where did that carton of milk come from? So that's a fiction example. So it really is all all kinds of films.
Glen Merzer: I'm a big Earthling Ed fan and he seems quite productive. He's got a couple of books, too.
Emma Schwarz: Yes, he is great. So we're really excited that he submitted this year.
Glen Merzer: Will he be at the festival?
Emma Schwarz: He may. may. we're currently in the judging process of our adjudication process. So all the film reviewers have rated the films. We've taken the top films and sent them to the judges. And those two films did make the cut to go to the judges, but no final decisions have been made If those films are selected, then we will definitely extend an invitation to Earthling Ed and hopefully he'll be able to make it. But stay tuned on that.
Glen Merzer: All right. What is the venue for the film festival in Toronto?
Emma Schwarz: Yes. So the venue is the Innistown Hall Theatre at the University of Toronto. It's a wonderful theatre with a huge screen and a really comprehensive lobby as well. And so we'll also the festival have vendors in the lobby, we'll have vegan food vendors. One restaurant that has committed is the Animal Liberation Kitchen, so they will be there serving food. We have a vegan kombucha brewery that is going to serve kombucha. We have a number of animal sanctuaries that will be there tabling and talking to people. So we'll have a really comprehensive lobby experience as well, because we want IVFF to be a place where people you know, we're promoting films and vegan filmmakers, obviously, but we also want to promote animal sanctuaries and support their work. We want to promote vegan businesses, vegan food companies. So we really want to be a center where people can learn about a vegan lifestyle through the films and then have options of here's how you do that. Here's how you live those values in your life by volunteering at an animal sanctuary or eating vegan food things like that. So we really want IVFF to be a connection maker for industry professionals and people seeking to incorporate more vegan choices in their lives.
Glen Merzer: Okay. How many people are you expecting?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah. So we're expecting about 400 people total between our activism workshop and the film festival. So it'll be quite large of an event. And then obviously, if anyone is not able to attend in person, we are doing a virtual screening shortly after the in -person festival as well. And we're just setting up that registration link now. you you can follow IVFF's social channels for more information on that virtual screening.
Glen Merzer: Is the website ivff.org?
Emma Schwarz: It is theIVFF.com.
Glen Merzer: TheIVFF.com. that's where people can get information about how to attend the festival, either virtually or in person. Right.
Emma Schwarz: Correct. Yes.
Glen Merzer: OK. The IVFF .com. And if people want to submit films, what can they do?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, so that's also on our website as well. That website is really a great like one stop shop of information attending the festival, virtual screenings, and of course, submitting your films as well.
Glen Merzer: OK. How many films do you get submitted per year?
Emma Schwarz: Yeah, so we get about 50 films submitted every year and then we give awards in eight different categories, so eight award winners. And then we usually depending on the duration of the films screen about 12 at the annual festival.
Glen Merzer: OK, screen 12 and they're all lengths, right? From shorts to full length features.
Emma Schwarz: Exactly. So one of the exciting new categories that we added this year was social media advocacy, because social media is really the bulk of everyone's content diet. Now we may watch you know, three feature length films in a month, but we probably watch 3000 reels in a month, right? So social media is just a huge part of everyone's content consumption. And it really is the center of modern activism, particularly for animal advocacy. Social media is where a lot of animal advocacy is occurring. So we want we wanted to add that category to connect IVFF to the center of modern animal activism and also give a platform for the creators who are doing that really well because social media is super hard to do well. It's very difficult to disseminate information in a creative and engaging way in under 90 seconds. So we wanted to recognize those creators who are doing that effectively.
Glen Merzer: You could always ask that guy, John Oberg?
Emma Schwarz: Yes.Yes, John Oberg with over one billion lifetime views giving his workshop on animal activism. Yes, that he is incredible.
Glen Merzer: Well, John, I could use his help.
Emma Schwarz: Me too. I'll be attending the workshop for sure.
Glen Merzer: Are you going to have Q &A's with the filmmakers?
Yes. So depending on how many filmmakers decide to attend the festival, we are certainly prepared to host a Q &A with them. It really just depends on who is attending. So that will happen after we make our announcements and contact all the filmmakers and get confirmation for if they're able to come because not everyone can travel internationally. But yes, if we get enough filmmakers, we will absolutely host a Q &A with them at the festival.
Glen Merzer: All right. Now, will your book be available for sale at the festival?
Emma Schwarz: Thank you. I will not be advertising my book at the festival because I want it to be all about IVFF, but people are certainly welcome to just look up Plant -Powered Persuasion on Amazon and it is available there for purchase, but it will not be part of the IVFF.
Glen Merzer: Okay. So hold up the book now. It's over your right shoulder and tell us a little bit more about it. Because you told us a little bit, I know that it's about how to be a more effective persuader and be more positive instead of confrontational. But how many pages is it?
Emma Schwarz: Sure. it is, let's see.
Glen Merzer: It looks pretty thick.
Emma Schwarz: It's pretty thick, yes.
Glen Merzer: So you couldn't have, you must have made other points in there.
Emma Schwarz: Yes, I did. It is a total of 357 pages.
Glen Merzer: 357 pages. I'm positive you made other points in there. I have not read it yet. I will have to put it on the must do list. What else do you discuss in those three hundred fifty seven pages?
Emma Schwarz: Thank you. So, yes, three hundred fifty seven pages, including citations. There's about 40 pages of just citations because
Glen Merzer: I'm not reading those.
Emma Schwarz: Yes, that's OK. Because I wanted everything to be very, you know, scientifically based and backed by the the best science available. So the book is split into three parts. The first part is just about communication principles. So it's all how to communicate effectively. And I give a couple of tools on how to do that. One of which I can detail is the effective communication filter. So that is a device that I designed to help people filter the thought that they have and put it through the filter into what comes out of their mouth. Because a lot of times we think things that there We think things as a vegan, but that's not necessarily the most persuasive thing for our audience. So there are four parts to the effective communication filter that help you craft an effective argument for or an effective sentence or for the person in front of you. So it's kind of practical tools like that are detailed in the first part of the book. And then the second part of the book. I go through every single common argument against veganism and that is split into the four pillars. So the ethics pillar, the health pillar, the environment pillar, and then the humanity pillar. So it basically details every argument that you'll come against and how to communicate effectively with that topic. So I detailed the psychology behind the argument of the non -vegan. So I'm saying this is where the non -vegan is coming from. And then this is the most important information you need to know as a vegan in order to combat that argument. And then here is how you communicate effectively. So we go psychology, information, and then effective communication strategies for every single common argument against veganism. And then part three is kind of putting all of that together. And then I talk about how we will as vegans, how our activism will culminate in the creation of a vegan supply chain. So it's kind of like a whole picture of like, here's where we're standing now. And then here's how we get to a vegan supply chain.
Glen Merzer: OK. Now, it's my opinion that what what our fellow vegans particularly need is more understanding of the health arguments, because what I find is the other side usually concedes the other aspects of the equation. In other words, for example, Gary Taubes, who is one of the leading promoters of the meat -based diet, he wrote an article recently in which he said something like, I'm not quoting him exactly, but something like, animal agriculture is an environmental nightmare that know, can't be disputed. And it certainly seems cruel to treat the animals this way, but he believes it's healthy to eat them. And I don't know too many people who look at pigs in crates and all the abuses in animal agriculture who can defend that. And I don't know too many people who dispute that animal agriculture is causing problems with the environment between the lagoons of waste and the methane gas and the burning of the land by grazing animals and so forth. So generally they concede those arguments, but they just seem to feel, but you need your calcium, you need your protein. So I've always felt that if we can just educate people on the health arguments that It becomes so much easier to win the debate. You agree?
Emma Schwarz: I completely agree. And I talk about that in my book. I say even if you're a junk food vegan, that's great. You don't need to change, but you need to know the health arguments because that is where most vegans stumble. And then you're not able to convince people because you don't know how to communicate effectively and you don't know how to respond. So I think the health argument is really important for all vegans to know, because like you said, it's you can't like non -vegans can't win on the morals. They can't win on the environment. They know that. And so the health pillar is really what they stick to to say, my personal health justifies treating animals horribly and destroying the planet. But when you are able to say, Hey, your personal health is better on a plant -based diet and animal products are actually degrading your personal health, then their argument falls apart. There's no justification for the abuse of animals and the environment. So knowing the health topics is really important. And what's challenging about that is the health science is so vast. There's so much science and it's impossible for the average person to memorize all of that and then communicate it effectively. So what I've done in this book is I've said, hey, there's a ton of science out here and here are resources like nutritionfacts .org and Dr. Greger's books if you want to delve into the science deeply. So that those are the resources for that exhaustive deep dive. But in this book, here are the most important and persuasive points that you need to memorize for everyday conversations. So I take all of that information and distill it down into what is what is most persuasive in everyday conversations.
Glen Merzer: Right. Well, that sounds like a good service you've done in making that concise for people, Emma.And what I tell people is that all these studies often create confusion, that there are so many studies that are what they call self -reporting studies of nutrition. So 10 ,000 people go home, eat whatever they want, report after a week what they remember that they ate, and then some scientists to tease out the data of how many fruits did the meat eaters eat and how many vegetables did the pescatarians eat. I sometimes think that it's a scheme to just get funding to do more studies. If you want to really know how diets work, you do a study the way Dr. Esselstyn did. He put people, and he took people who were heart patients in desperate shape, and he put them on the optimal diet, a low -fat, whole foods, vegan diet. No oil, no sugar. Not sure if he allowed any salt, but he put them on a whole foods, whole plant food diet, and he reversed heart disease. Has anybody done that with sausages? So when you do self -reporting studies, you get confusing data that can be interpreted a hundred different ways. When you put people on the optimal human diet and you motivate them to stay on that diet, then compare that diet to any other diet. And I always say, try to top the Esselstyn's diet. Good luck to you. Do a study where if you believe that cheese is healthy, put people on a cheese diet and the Esselstyn diet and compare that. But if you're just doing self -reporting studies, you never get clarity. You can't get clarity that way.
Emma Schwarz: Absolutely. I agree.
Glen Merzer: So do you foresee yourselves, yourself making a lot of movies?
Emma Schwarz: That's a great point. So my partner and I started out with filmmaking where we were kind of making full length films. And what we have kind of shifted to now is short form content. So we've really fallen in love with social media just because it can reach so many people in such a short amount of time. And my partner and I have really started specializing in 3D animation.most of our content now is completely 3D animated. So we'll take a person and film them on a green screen and then take that and put it into a 3D environment and animate things around it. And we've found that that's a really creative way to disseminate information because different than what most people are used to seeing. You can create anything you want in 3D animation. You're not tied down to what's physically happening in the world. And that's a great way to present data too and make data interesting because you can animate all sorts of graphs. So we've really shifted to short form 3D animated content. And one of the cool things that we just did was we worked with the nonprofit Switch for Good. which is headed by Dotsie Bausch, the Olympic silver medalist from Game Changers. And we collaborated with them to create a campaign video advocating for adding soy milk to the national school lunch program. And that 3D animated campaign video was actually sent to the US Congress to lobby them to pass this legislation. So that's with the US Congress right now and we're hoping that they'll pass it by the end of the year. So that's the kind of content that we're doing now really exciting and fun and I think has an even greater potential to reach more people.
Glen Merzer: is the animation all around the central character who is who is just filmed or does the central character get animated too?
Emma Schwarz: So the central character can be manipulated to pop out of things. in that video that I was just talking central character, we have them like pop out of a trash can and stuff like that. So we can do lots of like fun, cool things. And 3D animation just gives you so much flexibility because you're literally creating a world from scratch. You can do anything you want.
Glen Merzer: So it's a really fun and creative way to disseminate information. is it expensive or just labor intensive to do 3D animation?
Emma Schwarz: Great question. So it's extremely labor intensive, but luckily we have the software and the computer that can handle it. So it's just a lot of man hours, but we're we're here for it because we're here to work for the animals and the planet and we'll do whatever it takes to create the most compelling content.
Glen Merzer: Good for you. So is any of your content available now that people can find on the Web?
Emma Schwarz: Absolutely. So our Instagram is where most of our content lives. So the Instagram is at veganography .films. It's just like videography, but instead of video, it's vegan. Veganography .films is our Instagram handle and that's where all of our content lives.
Glen Merzer: And when you put your content up there at at veganography dot films is is that how does that compare to putting it up on a website in terms of getting views? And what would what would John Oberg say about that?
Emma Schwarz: John Oberg would say like the social platforms are where it's at. So websites are really the most traffic that you get on websites is people who love you on Instagram and want to learn more about you. So Instagram is really kind of like the funnel to the website. So Instagram and, you know, TikTok and those social media platforms are really where you're going to get your most views because that's where people are scrolling. People are not scrolling websites.
Glen Merzer: OK. And is any of content? Are you trying to get it shown anywhere at other film festivals?
Emma Schwarz: That's a great question. we the the last kind of film that we full full fledged film that we produced was in twenty twenty two. No, twenty twenty three. Twenty twenty three. So, you know, our we've our films have kind of like run the film festival circuit. They've, you know, been submitted and shown lots of places and won awards. But now that we're kind of not producing longer form films anymore and mostly focusing on social media, probably not unless there are film festivals that have social media categories. Of course, we're not submitting to IVFF because I cannot do that as executive director and I want to keep everything very separate and avoid any conflicts of interest. So yeah, in terms of veganography, we're mostly focusing on social media and like campaign videos now.
Glen Merzer: All right. Well, Emma, it has been a pleasure getting to know you here. And I hope that people watching this will, if they're interested in film, will consider going to Toronto in November for the International Vegan Film Festival. And in any case, they could watch it virtually as well. Again, that's IVFF .com.
Emma Schwarz: it's the IVFF .com. E I don't forget the V.
Glen Merzer: Don't forget the V IVFF .com. And you can find Emma's book Plant Powered Persuasion on Amazon. Emma, I want to see you around. I'm back sometime.
Emma Schwarz: I would love to. Thank you so much for having me today. was such a pleasure to talk with you.
Glen Merzer: Thank you.Take care
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